To not understand how this is cultural appropriation?

[NewUsername18382828]

Namechanged for this.
DH and I decided to give DD (who is now 6) a name which is originally from another country. Neither of us have relatives or any connection there, we just liked the name. There is an English variant of the name but we didn't like the sound of it as much so went with the one we liked most. Didn't think it would be a problem, a name is a name.

Well anyway, a mum of a girl in DD's class at school was born in that country. She heard me call DD at the gates and started talking to me about her name. She was asking what our ties were to the country, and so on. When I said there weren't any and we just liked the name, she muttered something about cultural appropriation and left with her child. Fast forward another couple of weeks and I've just been informed by another parent that she's been badmouthing us, saying we shouldn't use a foreign name when we have no ties to the country, it's cultural appropriation.

AIBU to have no clue how this is cultural appropriation? I always thought a name was just a name.

It’s a shame we don’t seem to be able to have a sensible conversation about this. I think it’s interesting. Do you think it would be OK for a child in the U.K. with absolutely no Muslim connections to be called Muhammad or Hadiyah, for example?

Why do you care? Regardless of if it is or isn't culturally appropriated you're not going to change it so why get yourself wound up? Roll your eyes and say everyone's got an opinion and move the conversation on.

Whether or not it is CA depends on the power dynamics, if it was an indian name for instance, given that we colonised and took a lot of their culture forcibly, it could conceivably be CA, or a name which white people largely mock for instance when black people use it but then decide to use themselves could be. There's a power dynamic rather than pure where is it from.

I wouldn't personally. I love the name Selena for instance (Selena Kyle fan) but it's traditionally Spanish. We are not in anyway linked to the country. I would be uncomfortable with it.

Not likely but I know a Pakistani woman with a male Persian name. So what?

Not always, but usually yes, because of the power dynamics. White people have much more often invaded and subjugated other nations, and much less often been the ones oppressed. So yes, white people are much more likely to be guilty of cultural appropriation. Deal with it.

I'm irish. I dont remember the last time Ireland invaded and subjugated another nation? Quite the opposite actually.

@mistycloud

This reminds me of a man (around 35,) who was teaching a computer course I went on once. He was white too, but had been living in Jamaica since he was 8. (Born in the UK, moved to Jamaica aged 8 with his parents, and then moved back to he UK aged 33.)

Understandably his accent was 100% Jamaican, and he had such a hard time, because people thought he was 'taking the piss' out of the accent, and was being racist. He had to constantly explain that he has spent most of his life in the West Indies.

@Redheadwonder

that’s a good point misty cloud, I wonder why it doesn’t work the other way around, as in black/Asian people have English accents from what ever area they are from. Like a black gentleman with an Irish accent.

I know right! And I must say, it is quite annoying. It rarely works both ways does it?

@GorkyMcPorky

I'm Welsh, but as a non-Welsh speaker I thought it would be daft to choose a Welsh name.

Aww, that's a shame. Because there are many beautiful Welsh names.

@BreadSauceHmm

I'm Muslim and have seen plenty of non-muslims with Muslim names like Jasmine, Nadine, Jamila, Rihanna, Amaya, Haytham, Idris. That mum is being ridiculous.

Wow, those are VERY nice names.

(Scot here with hand up)

....well there was the Duke of Wellington in India.

I’d like to know what the name is because if it’s Anastasia and she’s Russian then that’s whole different ball game to Pocahontas if she’s Native American.

So yes, white people are much more likely to be guilty of cultural appropriation. Deal with it.

"Deal with it" is right up there with "do better" and extremely handy as an indicator that the person saying it can safely be totally ignored.

It really depends on the name. If you’ve called her something racially neutral like Yasmin then it’s fine and she needs to get over herself. But if you’ve chosen a name which, if given to a person from the ethnicity associated with that culture would result in a lot of racist stereotyping like Fatima then it is cultural appropriation. Cultural appropriation in its broadest sense is where as a whole person you get to be cool for doing something that would draw discrimination when done by a person of a different ethnicity,

I'm genuinely baffled by this. Nearly all names in reasonably common use have been 'culturally appropriated'. My name is a French variant of a very common English name which is derived from a Hebrew name. I am neither French or Jewish. So what?
What is a truly 'English' name anyway? Anglo-Saxon like Cwen or Mildrith or Cyneburh? Do we have to give our kids pre-1066 names?

There are lots of kids called Kevin in France, but it's looked down on by middle class parents who consider it "chavvy" to give your children an anglo-saxon name without having any link to the culture.

An interesting article about the social connotations of the name.

www.lepoint.fr/insolite/la-malediction-des-kevin-01-04-2015-1917538_48.php

Aren't Idris, Rihanna, Amaya welsh names? That well known muslim culture...

I worked in Ghana for a few years, the local slang for foreign light skinned people is 'Oburoni'. There is nothing derogatory about the term, it was used to get my attention in a crowd when I was the only white person there. In the office in Accra I ended up jokingly calling myself Mr Oburoni as none of the locals could pronounce my very Irish surname. While I was there the Nigerian band P Square had a hit called 'Chop my Money' that was getting plenty of radio air time, it was very catchy and I was observed in the office kitchen one day singing the tune to myself. It was decided that instead of 'Oburoni' my new name would be Mr Okoye, which was the same surname as two of the bands frontmen. Is that cultural appropriation in both me liking Nigerian pop music and adopting informally the name Okoye.? I'm sure there is a hand wringing Guardian article here just waiting to break out.

I enjoyed reading this. Lovely.

So what is the name?

I think it's a touch pretentious I'm afraid. I'm Welsh, but as a non-Welsh speaker I thought it would be daft to choose a Welsh name. Cultural appropriation is a massive stretch though.

It depends how common it is - so many Welsh names have been completely assimilated into English naming now. Most likely due to Welsh people moving to England.
When I was at school, Craig was very common - all the boys with it were English. Same for Rhys or Dylan these days.
A less common name, like Gethin or Daffydd for example would be a bit odd.
Anyway, I doubt the OP is taking a British name.
I wish she'd post the name, or a similar one.

Hey @MockersFactCheckMN

The Duke of Wellington himself said when asked if he was Irish that being born in a stable would not make him a horse, so I guess he didn't think of himself as Irish and most Irish people certainly don't think of him as Irish!

Shulamith Firestone was an eminent American feminist. Is nobody allowed to name a daughter in her honour? Come to that, so many authors from foreign countries, amazingly, have foreign names Are you not allowed to name a child after a favourite author, or a fictional character? Not in the eyes of some people, presumably!

The woman sounds like a loon, OP!

An interesting article about the social connotations of the name.

not sure everyone can understand the French article, but there was also a study that a Kevin is 10 to 30% less likely to be employed than a "Pierre" or another French name... Definitively seen as chavvy!

@Redheadwonder it does (in a way). My husband and his siblings get a lot of flack from lower middle class and down Brits over their RP accents. And their jobs. And their education. Lower class British can’t stand the though of the children of a refugee who came to Britain with nothing bar a degree doing better than them.

Really depends on the name. A very English person calling their child Saoirse would be weird but not so much if they called a child Seán.

Has she realised how many traditional "English" names are Biblical in origin, hence Jewish? Names like David, or Sarah?

This post,from Reddit sets out some guidelines about what the poster believes to be pointers to cultural appropriation of ma,es

"I actually teach my students about cultural appropriation and I think the test we use is fit for names as well as fashion, etc. I tell them to ask three questions:
What is the relationship between my culture and the origin culture? As a white American of English and Celtic descent, borrowing French culture (similar power level, equal rivals) is different from borrowing Native American (my ancestors literally hated and killed theirs).
What is the significance of the name (or item or image etc)? Is it sacred or limited in the source culture? Find out the source of the name -- is it a foreign form of a name in your own culture? A word-name? Or is it something reserved for special people in that community, or the name of a diety whom you don't believe in? See: Xochitl (Aztec/Nahuatl for "flower") vs Xochiquetzal (an Aztec goddess). Research it! It would be odd for a non-Christian to use the name Immaculada, even if "Maria" is also biblical but more fair game.
What is my intent? What is my personal relationship with this culture or this name? If you like something just because it's "cool" or "pretty" and it's not part of your culture, step back. But sometimes people have a strong connection with a name from another culture, whether through a close personal relationship (naming after someone) or experience or religion. Again, learn about it!
These aren't black/white, but it really helps as far as being self-aware and self-critical."

My name is French, I have no ties to France.

If I had to choose a purely English name I’d be Boudicca and DS would be Edern