To think more than 1.6mil ppl are on £80k if mumsnet is anything to go by?!?

[KimchiLaLa]

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/22/question-time-80000-super-rich-earning-workers

This article is saying 1.6mil ppl are on 80k. How is that possible when a salary thread comes up on mumsnet, practically everyone claims to have a 100k plus salary?!!

Had anyone checked whether those ONS figures are based on salaried income? A lot of people who own business or are self employed have a high income that is not necessarily reflected in their salary for tax reasons? Meaning the figures of people taking home a lot of cash will be much higher?

But a lot of self employed people earn very little - Uber drivers and other gig economy workers, cleaners, child minders etc. Some don't even make the NMW.

Not all self employed people are celebrities or consultants charging X hundred pounds per day.

Given that most people are on PAYE, £80k will still be the top 5/10% even when high earning self employed people are taken into account.

The median income is around the £25k mark.

But median full time is about 30k. Mean is a lot higher of course but not really a useful figure.

Where I live, the median income is 22k and most of the jobs are minimum wage retail, hospitality or admin.

It makes me when I keep reading people talking about £80k earners as middle class. Goodness knows what that makes me! I know of one person who earns that. Me and DH don't even earn that combined on two full time salaries!

There was a good new statesman article on why people often misplace themselves percentage wise on lines of inequality.

I've not researched this but I do think that more than 5% earn 80k+. Perhaps it because some (many? most?) self employed people don't declare all their earnings, and perhaps the 80k doesn't include bonuses, commission, overtime, or other perks like company cars which probably make someone's package over 80k but aren't classed as basic salary.

In London / a lot of the SE those in the larger / detached houses wouldn't be able to afford them without salaries in that region.

I know a lot of people who earn over £80k - you have to round here! £1.6M is a big number too.

I reckon one person I know earns
around/over £80k+. I live in a relatively poor part of the UK though. Even £50k+ I think I only know 2 at most. The vast majority of people I know earn under £30k, though I obviously can't know that for sure.

Class is different to income. You can be upper class and penniless and working class and a multi millionaire.

Whilst there is certainly a small degree of embellishment on here concerning income and lifestyle, there are undoubtedly a considerable number of MNers who are high earners or who have high earning husbands and partners.

The problem is stratification and social circles. If you live and work in a prosperous area then you're going to mix with others who are prosperous. Similarly, if you live in a disadvantaged area, you’ll mix with other disadvantaged people. One group cant imagine using a food bank while the other group cant imagine earning more than £20,000 per year because they dont know anyone who does.

In London / a lot of the SE those in the larger / detached houses wouldn't be able to afford them without salaries in that region

Most people who own those houses bought them a long time ago. I don't know anyone under 40 who owns a large or detached house in London!

Plus this is individual salaries. A couple both earning 50-60k are still going to be very well off together and capable of buying a decent enough home, despite both individually being in the 95%.

I think a lot of high-earners live in a bubble and don't really understand the realiity of what most people earn. I'm very middle-class, we grew up in a 6-bed detached house in a "home county" and never wanted for anything, holidayed every year etc. A few years ago I saw my dad's paycheck and it was 65k. I know my mum earned about 45k before she retired. All my friends are equally middle-class and work in or around London as surveyors, teachers, software developers etc. and I still don't know anyone earning more than 80k.

Our household income is around the 80k mark yet we live in an isolated bubble community - outside the wall, people are going to foodbanks. I teach in a school in a deprived area so I’m very well aware of poverty.

Of the people in my friendship group, one earns around 20k in the NHS, a GP earns 50k, other public services professionals earn in the 30-60k bracket. A university administrator earns 22k. All my friends own their own homes, some rent out a second property. I don’t think anybody would consider themselves rich but at the same time are aware that their lives are comfortable compared to most people.

On the other hand I have friends in London who work in banking and who earn six figures yet pay a couple of grand a month into their mortgage.

www.givingwhatwecan.org/get-involved/how-rich-am-i/ Tells me that having a household income of 80k means we are in the top 1% in the world! I suddenly feel very fortunate.

I don't believe 95% of the population are on less than £80k. Put it that way !

Why not? What jobs do you think are paid more than £80k and how many of those jobs are there versus jobs that pay less?

Take a hospital. Nurses, porters, lab techs, cleaners, most if not all doctors, receptionists, admin staff, middle managers, security, radiographers, physiotherapists earn less than that. Most of them earn much less than that. There are many more of these in any hospital than staff on more than £80k.

Take a tesco. Again many many staff on near minimum wage.i dont think store managers get paid that much. Youd have to get to regional manager or 'Head of' posts before breaching 80k.

There are 20 people in my organisation. None are paid that much. Most are on less than half that despite their degrees and masters and phDs and expertise in their fields.

Bank managers get maybe half that and outnumbered maybe 10 to 1 in each branch. Clerks might be on £20k or so.

I know about 3 people on more than t
80k. An IT consultant. A statistic analyst in insurance and a project consultant. 2 support labour. 1 'not Tory'. None of them work harder than people on less money.

Is it such a bad thing to earn £80k, or more, or less?

I keep seeing a number of posts about this topic and feel that people who do earn a high wage are almost vilified for it.

So what if people do earn a lot of money, that's not a bad thing

My DH earns above £80k (not by much), but I'm a SAHM so our household income is less than a lot of people claim theirs to be on here. We probably can't afford private education for our DC due to a high mortgage. I'm always dubious of the posters who claim to be on £250k plus yet can never say what their job is as it is far too outing .

So what if people do earn a lot of money, that's not a bad thing

Nope, it's not. And neither is paying a little bit more tax - it's how we operate as a civilised society.

I think many people on MN stealth brag their total household income, plus tiny bit of embellishment. If both are earning 30K-35K which is not extravagant, especially in the South, then a quick rounding up will land you at 80K.

And yes, the higher up the income levels, the more of a bubble people end up in. The discrepancy between the final percent (99% - 100%) is absolutely massive. In most Western countries, 300K-500K will get you into the 1%, however you'll be hanging out with millionaires who easily earn 2x-10x more than that and have endless family wealth. So it's comparable to someone earning 30K having a discussion with people earning 300K...different worlds.

There's a book called Uneasy Street - Anxieties of Affluence (Rachel Sherman) which covers this topic fairly well. Fascinating reading, but only for those are not easily triggered by discussions of privilege and inequality. If you can sit back objectively and accept that capitalism produces people who earn or inherit X amounts, then the book is pretty good.

@leghairdontcare my tax, pension and NI contributions equate to about 42% of my monthly salary. I think that's quite enough, especially when I draw very little out

Back of a fag packet so all numbers are approximate

20% of the population are over the age of state pension
21% of the population are under the age of 18

That leaves 59% of the population of working age

of which

1.5% are full time students and therefore unlikely to be earning wages above the tax threshold.

2% are Stay at home parents

Unemployment is currently around 4%

That leaves 52% ish of the population left who are earning a wage above the tax threshold = around 34 million people

Of those around 3% are in NMW jobs (there may be some overlap with students here so I've rounded down)

If at the other end of the scale we are told roughly 5% of 34 million people earn £80k or more (by my figures about 1.7 million) that looks about right in comparison.

That leaves everyone else in the middle.

Yabu OP. Lots of people earn more than £80k and those who don't could if they only maximised their earning potential. Yes, all of them. That means you, little person working in a shop.

I dont know anyone in London, I live in the Midlands, but in my social circle I know a management consultant on £78,000, a head teacher on £90,000, a management accountant on £50,000, an NHS change consultant on £60,000, a couple of vicars on £40,000, a secretary on £30,000 and a graphic designer on £50,000.

Yabu OP. Lots of people earn more than £80k and those who don't could if they only maximised their earning potential. Yes, all of them. That means you, little person working in a shop.

most deluded post of the year.

Well if we all worked harder then we'd be on 100k too mumsnet is an imaginary world of make believe where people earning 20k only exist for others to look down on.

In rl, I know a handful of people earning 100k but it's not the norm - I work with doctors. My friends are all much more "normal" yet the doctors complain they're poor - probably because they pay for 3-4 sets of independent school fees which leaves them with less take home than me

I have dragged myself up the corporate ladder to earn what I earn. I've literally slogged my guts out, sacrificed day and night and grasped every opportunity that's been offered to me.

My mother wasn't wealthy and I learnt from an early age if I wanted to be able to do the things I wanted to from a young age (which was to see the world) the best way to do it was to get a job which combined travel with a good salary. Money doesn't buy happiness but it buys you options and choices.

Yes I had lucky breaks along the way but I also worked my ass off for it and I'm proud of what I've achieved.

Sorry OP I know your post wasn't intended in that way. Some people just piss me off with their envy and self pity.

I'm happy to contribute towards our state and appreciate that one day I may need to call on it. But I also have to account for that I'll need to self fund my retirement as there may not be a pension when I get to that age. It's all about planning and preparation.

Ok Gordon Gecko.