To think this coat is faulty?

[rosiejaune]

I bought some clothes (a skirt, a jumper, a coat, and two pairs of leggings) from an organic children's clothes manufacturer (direct from them, not a retailer) in September.

The sizing on their website is confusing because they don't specify whether the older children's sizing is from age/height X, or up to age/height X (which they do for the younger ones). I thought it must be from, because it goes ...7, 8, 9, 10-11, and otherwise that would mean there was a sizing gap from age 9-10.

But it turns out it isn't, it's the other way round, so some of the age 9 clothes I'd ordered for my slightly taller than average 8.5 year old were too small.

So I returned both pairs of leggings for the largest size. When she started wearing the new ones, my daughter complained that they were falling down, but I thought it was just her penchant for not wearing underwear that was the issue, so I advised her to do so. When the issue persisted, I examined both pairs and realised that one was wide and short, and the other was narrower and longer.

I checked the measurements on the website, and neither pair was correct. One waistband was 2cm larger than stated, and the other was 2cm smaller. And both were shorter than stated, one by 4cm, and the other by 6cm.

We were also having issues with the coat. Every time she tried to put it on, the lining (which is a rather stretchy jersey fabric that isn't attached to the outer layer of the coat) would get pushed down the sleeves and tangle her hands up in it so she couldn't get them out of the other end. Even if I helped her put it on, I still always ended up having to pull the fabric back up to the top of the sleeve once the coat was on, as it always bunched around her wrists. It also seems somewhat smaller than the stated measurements, though it's more difficult to tell with that than the leggings.

So I emailed the company, and they said there was a 4% tolerance in sizing for the leggings to allow for manufacturing differences/washing shrinkage, so there was technically nothing wrong with them even if they seemed incorrect.

I also said I thought there was a design flaw in the coat, as an average 8 year old should be able to put their coat on more easily than that. And they said they had had no other complaints about the coat.

They emailed me a voucher for £20 (which apparently was meant to cover the cost of a pair of leggings plus postage, though they didn't explain that till after I queried it).

I pointed out that the legging lengths were actually both over 4% short (albeit one of them borderline, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt on that pair in case it was my measuring error), even if the waistbands were technically correct [though ridiculous].

And that not having had any other complaints doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with the coat; others might be having issues and just not said anything.

Anyway, I said I'd send the wide short leggings back for a replacement (which will be a different design now, as they've sold out of the others) and they cancelled the voucher. We'll keep the other pair (even though she'll grow out of them faster than she should).

But the only thing they offered to do about the coat is inspect it for potential twisted seams if I returned it. And replace it if they agreed it was faulty. My daughter does a number of outdoor activities (she's home educated), and that is her only coat (apart from a thin waterproof shell), so I explained I couldn't send it back because we don't have an alternative for her to wear in the meantime.

And besides, then I might end up in the position of them having the coat, and not agreeing there's anything wrong with it. It's difficult enough to find a coat she will wear, as she has sensory issues and can't stand synthetic fleece linings, so I was relieved to find one with an organic cotton lining. They do have one other that would be suitable (padded but unlined) if they agreed to replace it.

I took a photo of the coat inside out to show them the seams; the arm ones look fine; the wrist ones are a bit uneven, but the problem starts at the top of the sleeve anyway, even if the wrist seams were contributing to the issue.

I also got my daughter to take her top off and try the coat on with bare arms. Then it went on perfectly.

So I think the issue is pretty clear; that the friction from her clothing is dragging the overly stretchy lining down the sleeve, and that this is therefore a design flaw. But they don't agree, so we are stuck with this annoying coat.

Yes, it sounds like they have very low standards. Can I ask which manufacturer so that I can avoid?

Did you buy them under six months ago?

If so you have rights under the consumer rights act regarding faulty/ unsuitable goods.

Some good info/ form emails to use here: www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-faulty-product

They are both the manufacturer and retailer in this instance - this is the bit to quote for the coat:

Fit for purpose The goods should be fit for the purpose they are supplied for, as well as any specific purpose you made known to the retailer before you agreed to buy the goods.

Yes I stated my consumer rights to them, but they don't agree the coat is faulty (at least by design, and they might not in quality terms even if I could send it back). It's over 30 days but less than 6 months.

You need to restate your statutory rights in writing - worth cc-ing your local trading standards office if you believe they will not listen.

Well so far 6/11 people think IABU, so maybe I won't say anything further.

Could you maybe get the inside of the lining quilted? So it’s less stretchy.

It shouldn’t do that but they have offered to return and check it. Maybe it’s a little tight on the sleeves? Unfortunately not having a spare coat to cover isn’t something most places would help with, especially not places that don’t do clear sizing and allow larger error margins.

YABU to have only 1 coat for your daughter, sorry. It makes no sense, if you refuse to return it, what do you expect them to do?

Do you really just want a refund and keep the coat?

I am not trying to be goady, I have kids, they need at least 2 coats so they always have 1 to wear.

Under the 2015 consumer law goods have to be fit for purpose, unless YOU can prove they aren’t. It’s over 30 days and that’s your window for a refund, replacement or repair. All they can do know is look at your complaint and if you don’t return the jacket they can’t do that. The law is there to protect both the retailer and the consumer. If the jacket was handmade or finished by hand they will have have a tolerance which you agreed to when purchasing.

I can't afford two coats at once (I had to save up for this stuff), and there are very few she will wear anyway. She has never had two warm coats at the same time.

No, ideally I would like either a suitable replacement, or a refund so I can buy one somewhere else, and then I could return the other one to them when the new one arrives. It's not like they can resell it, so there's no urgency to them receiving it back. Why would I want to keep the coat we both get very frustrated with?!

I don't have the voting turned on so you won't see my vote, however I think you shouldn't let this go.

A coat that can only be put on with no other sleeves underneath is not fit for use. A coat should be wearable.

You need to find an alternative, and to return the coat. If you send it back and get a refund you will need one anyway. Don't accept shoddy stuff.

The reason most coats have satin sleeve linings is to reduce friction when the arms go through, so it’s a design flaw rather than a manufacturing fault, you’d have the same issue with any coat with a cotton jersey lining in the sleeves

30 days is for a refund. It should still be replaced or repaired after 30 days (or refunded if those aren't possible for some reason), and the presumption is it was faulty at the time of purchase if the issue arises within the first 6 months. And it's the retailer who has to prove it wasn't originally faulty in that case, actually.

And my point is they don't need to inspect it if the fault is by design. I am not claiming it's a quality issue with only that item.

They will only give you a refund if the coat is with them, and at this point it would be pure courtesy. The coat isn’t faulty as such (that would be a hole, not waterproof etc), it is a poor fit and annoying to put on.
sorry, yabu

Also, you would have noticed the “fault” when she first tried it on (in september). waiting until
november and expecting a refund for what is a fit issue (jersey sleeves will do that, nothing you can do about that) is unreasonable

Is it frugi by any chance?
Lots of people unhappy with their quality at the moment.

@totorostoes frugi only comes up to 10 years. but as much as i love their regular clothes, their outerwear is pretty useless

If I'd returned it after she'd only tried it on, people would be saying I was unreasonable for assuming there was something wrong with it when she hadn't even worn it and it could have been a one-off. It's not until she wears it repeatedly and the same thing happens every time that it's obvious it's an issue.

If jersey sleeves always do that, then they are not suitable for a coat lining, hence it is not fit for purpose (which is my point). I don't think all jersey linings would do it anyway, but this particular one is quite stretchy (more so than her jersey tops, some of which are also made by them).

It's not Frugi.

the problem is that you have a fit issue, not a quality issue, that you waited a very long time to complain, and that you refuse to send it back to them to check.

I can’t see anywhere being willing to refund in advance.. incase they don’t receive it back.

The organic kids clothes will have cost a fair penny more than a primark/cheapish coat in the first place surely?

I had the same problem with a coat from an "organic/new age" type manufacturer.

It was a walking type coat, and when I got it it fitted beautifully and the colour was fantastic.

It was only when I went out in it I realised it was totally not wind or water proof (it seemed a sort of rubbery fabric which should have been good for a coat) . I ended up drenched and frozen, and got caught on a hill in bad weather.

I, like you complained, and got nowhere at all. When I checked the detail it says "Wind and water resistant with good ventilation." I was advised to waterproof it. They were not at all interested.

I have learned not to buy from these dodgy retailers whose green credentials are more important than their customers health and wellbeing. I have reverted to retailers with proven technology whose garments work.

I worked in the textile industry and teach consumer law.

They are entitled to ask for it back to check the issue. But this should be at no inconvenience to yourself.

In terms of the lining. The sleeves shouldn’t be attached to the coat apart from at the bottom. The lining is made with sleeves and then inserted in. The issue is with the jersey fabric, which isn’t suitable for sleeves. Sleeves should be lined in a ‘slidey’ fabric. This is the crux of ‘not fit for purpose’

The issue is with the incorrect fabric in the sleeves

3-in-1 coats do that with a fleece inner. I’m not making that mistake again.

I wouldn't call it a fit issue. It isn't a quality issue with that individual garment, but it is flawed by design. Unless it's my daughter who's flawed?! But she hasn't had issues putting on other coats.

And two months is not a long time; certainly not according to consumer rights law (otherwise they wouldn't give you six).

She was hardly wearing it for the first month, as it was warmer. And then when she did start wearing it, I wasn't supervising her putting it on, so I didn't know what the issue was (just that she was asking me to sort the sleeves out when we were about to leave).

So it wasn't till late October when I asked her to put it on in front of me, that I realised what the issue was. And then I realised what was happening with the leggings too (which was sporadic, as she has other leggings, so wasn't wearing the wide ones that often), which spurred me to contact them as it was a pattern of things not being fit for purpose from the same manufacturer.

Sounds as though the lining is just very stretchy and yes, friction on other garments like a cardi will cause problems.

Check what sort of satin-y type material would be okay inside sleeves for your DD's sensory issues.

See a seamstress. ask her to take out the lining in the sleeves and if they are large enough, to replace with quilted satin-type material.

If the sleeves won't take quilted satin, then plain satin-y type material will do.