To think this coat is faulty?

[rosiejaune]

I bought some clothes (a skirt, a jumper, a coat, and two pairs of leggings) from an organic children's clothes manufacturer (direct from them, not a retailer) in September.

The sizing on their website is confusing because they don't specify whether the older children's sizing is from age/height X, or up to age/height X (which they do for the younger ones). I thought it must be from, because it goes ...7, 8, 9, 10-11, and otherwise that would mean there was a sizing gap from age 9-10.

But it turns out it isn't, it's the other way round, so some of the age 9 clothes I'd ordered for my slightly taller than average 8.5 year old were too small.

So I returned both pairs of leggings for the largest size. When she started wearing the new ones, my daughter complained that they were falling down, but I thought it was just her penchant for not wearing underwear that was the issue, so I advised her to do so. When the issue persisted, I examined both pairs and realised that one was wide and short, and the other was narrower and longer.

I checked the measurements on the website, and neither pair was correct. One waistband was 2cm larger than stated, and the other was 2cm smaller. And both were shorter than stated, one by 4cm, and the other by 6cm.

We were also having issues with the coat. Every time she tried to put it on, the lining (which is a rather stretchy jersey fabric that isn't attached to the outer layer of the coat) would get pushed down the sleeves and tangle her hands up in it so she couldn't get them out of the other end. Even if I helped her put it on, I still always ended up having to pull the fabric back up to the top of the sleeve once the coat was on, as it always bunched around her wrists. It also seems somewhat smaller than the stated measurements, though it's more difficult to tell with that than the leggings.

So I emailed the company, and they said there was a 4% tolerance in sizing for the leggings to allow for manufacturing differences/washing shrinkage, so there was technically nothing wrong with them even if they seemed incorrect.

I also said I thought there was a design flaw in the coat, as an average 8 year old should be able to put their coat on more easily than that. And they said they had had no other complaints about the coat.

They emailed me a voucher for £20 (which apparently was meant to cover the cost of a pair of leggings plus postage, though they didn't explain that till after I queried it).

I pointed out that the legging lengths were actually both over 4% short (albeit one of them borderline, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt on that pair in case it was my measuring error), even if the waistbands were technically correct [though ridiculous].

And that not having had any other complaints doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with the coat; others might be having issues and just not said anything.

Anyway, I said I'd send the wide short leggings back for a replacement (which will be a different design now, as they've sold out of the others) and they cancelled the voucher. We'll keep the other pair (even though she'll grow out of them faster than she should).

But the only thing they offered to do about the coat is inspect it for potential twisted seams if I returned it. And replace it if they agreed it was faulty. My daughter does a number of outdoor activities (she's home educated), and that is her only coat (apart from a thin waterproof shell), so I explained I couldn't send it back because we don't have an alternative for her to wear in the meantime.

And besides, then I might end up in the position of them having the coat, and not agreeing there's anything wrong with it. It's difficult enough to find a coat she will wear, as she has sensory issues and can't stand synthetic fleece linings, so I was relieved to find one with an organic cotton lining. They do have one other that would be suitable (padded but unlined) if they agreed to replace it.

I took a photo of the coat inside out to show them the seams; the arm ones look fine; the wrist ones are a bit uneven, but the problem starts at the top of the sleeve anyway, even if the wrist seams were contributing to the issue.

I also got my daughter to take her top off and try the coat on with bare arms. Then it went on perfectly.

So I think the issue is pretty clear; that the friction from her clothing is dragging the overly stretchy lining down the sleeve, and that this is therefore a design flaw. But they don't agree, so we are stuck with this annoying coat.

You brought them more than 30 days ago. They offered to repair it. Which is consumer rights. You’ve refused that...

I’m going to say something which no one will believe.

I teach A level Textiles. Cotton is the most harmful fibre of all in terms of the environment. Even if it’s sustainable. This is because cotton goes through so many washing, bleaching and dyeing processes.

Polyester is not as harmful. Yes, it’s is using oil, but can easily be recycled and made into something else.

In terms of a sustainable footprint. Cotton is a baaaaad fibre. Tencel or Lyocell are better

They haven't offered to repair it. They just want to look at it to see if they think there's anything wrong with it (in quality terms, which is not what I'm complaining about anyway).

They do not acknowledge there is a design issue (for which they wouldn't have to inspect my individual coat anyway, as they've seen plenty of them already). I'm not surprised at that, since if they did admit it then they might feel like they had to offer to recall them all, which is a much bigger job.

I wonder if they are going to find something "wrong" with it just so they can justify refunding me without losing face.

I would have quite happily bought one with recycled polyester satin lining if there had been one at the same price. But the others were fleece. I didn't know this was going to be so stretchy, anyway.

I know perfectly well plastic uses fewer resources to produce than cotton (and indeed paper, when considering packaging alternatives). But that's not the only consideration (either environmentally or otherwise).

And GOTS certified organic cotton is not the same as e.g. H&M's "organic" cotton, as the certification covers the entire process (including labour standards and processing), not just the growing part.

They’ve offered to look at the coat then. And replace it if needs be.

Yes but what good will that do practically? They've already said they've looked at it in real life (i.e. ones they still have on site) and don't agree it's faulty by design, which is the basis I'm complaining about it on.

I don't think there's anything significant wrong with it in sewing terms (even if the wrists are a bit wonky, that doesn't explain why the fabric at the top is getting pulled down before the hand even gets to the wrist). But I am wondering if they are going to deem there to be something wrong even if there isn't.

So it just feels like jumping through hoops for the sake of it.

Ok. What is it that you want? For the comp y to issue a blank statement to all customers (with whom they’ve had no recalls or problens). That there is something wrong with one of their coats?

You also don’t want them to look at it nor do you want them to refund you?

I agree that kids (and indeed adults) usually only need one winter coat.

Does everyone really have multiple winter coats for their children? Seems so unnecessary.

I already said earlier ideally they'd replace it with something suitable or refund me. Which they will do if they think there's something wrong with it. Or if they pretend to think that, at least.

I just feel like they are making me go to unreasonable lengths to show there's something wrong with it, considering what I've had to do to sort it out (it was 6 charity shops, not 5, I miscounted). And they are still not going to agree there's a design issue (which multiple other people in this thread do think).

£18 is nothing to them, and I already had issues with other clothing from them. But then I guess they don't care much about my repeat custom, whether that's because I tend to buy things on sale, or because my daughter's now moving into their largest size of clothing so I won't continue to get more anyway.

I will try and remember to check what lining they use in the new version of the coat next year, and see if it's different (although I suppose they might still use the same fabric but less stretchy, and then you wouldn't be able to tell they'd changed it from the listing).

your lifestyle sounds very difficult.
does it have to be so ?
will your children thank you for it when they can choose for themselves.
guess it's your conscience, but I'm wondering if it'll be like some children brought up by uber-strict religion groups, they often turn against it later. when adults they may say they wished their parents has been more relaxed, humourous, rather than rigidly devoted to some dogma. no offence.

Well unless more people start living that way there won't be a world left for our children to grow up in, so they certainly can't thank anyone then.

OP - I totally support the idea of not buying much stuff and making sustainable buying choices, but if your daughter is out in winter for a few hours at a time then she needs a decent coat, made from modern fabrics. I would have searched on eBay for one of the Scandinavian children’s brands - they are fantastic for keeping the rain and cold out and really comfortable.

The whole thread I have been saying how she needs a suitable coat for the weather, and that the ones people are linking to aren't good enough, so I don't know why you are advising me to get one as if I don't know how to choose one.

The one she had was fine in that sense; it was waterproof and she was warm enough in it (with other layers underneath); it's been very cold the last few weeks and she was fine.

This is the fifth winter she's been at forest school, and I have always provided her with adequate clothing (though she hasn't always been willing to wear it, which is another issue).

Surely a design issue is personal preference though. The design doesn’t suit you, but that doesn’t mean it is faulty. They’ve already stated that No-one else has complained about the coat. Just because the design doesn’t suit you, doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

But good design shouldn’t behave like that

OP, I expected you to have said you paid much more than £18 for the coat. I'm also surprised at the effort and time yu spent going round so many charity shops. Maybe if you are on such a tight budget, that next winter you can start sourcing coats in charity shops , Ebay or FB marketplace earlier in the year to give you more options. Then if you can get two for leas money, then you won't get so obsessed if one doesn't turn out to be perfect, and she will always have a spare.

If it were me, rather than send it back, I would just put a few stitches in it at the shoulder inside, to keep the sleeve in place. It is just one of those things, and although annoying to most people, it is only so desperately disastrous to you because a) your moral stance, b)it is her one and only coat and c) you are so particular with your requirements, and d) you cannot easily afford another of the same price.

I would also look at boosting your income. Did you say your DD was home schooled? Is there a reason for this related to her SEN or is it a lifestyle choice? Does it mean you cannot work?

apologies for typos!

I've already sent it back, so altering it is not an option any longer. But pinning it just at the shoulder wouldn't help anyway, as there is plenty more fabric all down the sleeve to stretch to the wrist.

It is nothing to do with my ethics, as we have established multiple times you can't get a lined waterproof (not just water-resistant) coat for less than that on the high street anyway. It's the fact that I needed two at once just so I could send this one back that was the issue, not where it came from.

I have been into town today and bought a suitable coat from a remaindered shop. It was expensive (for us), but we have her food, plus enough ingredients in the house already, so we'll just have to eat lots of lentils this week, and hope they refund us for the other one. Anyway, now she has two, which should please people on the thread.

Home education was a philosophical choice (though I'm sure she wouldn't have got on at school anyway, considering her personality and social issues). I am not particularly employable, for various reasons. I'm doing a masters part-time, which may help with that, but I won't finish it for three years. I don't have the capacity to seek work as well as do those things.

I am eligible for PIP according to the criteria, but I can't bear to apply for it as I know I'd be refused first time so would have to appeal, and I don't have the mental/emotional resources for that either. Maybe if we end up with a different government next month, things will get easier in various ways.

My partner could apply for new jobs, but he is depressed and doesn't have the motivation or confidence to at the moment. I've tried helping him before, but I don't think it is actually useful; it's just more pressure.

OP, your situation sounds miserable. Perhaps I understand a bit more why this one coat was such a big deal. You sound very ground down.