To think this coat is faulty?

[rosiejaune]

I bought some clothes (a skirt, a jumper, a coat, and two pairs of leggings) from an organic children's clothes manufacturer (direct from them, not a retailer) in September.

The sizing on their website is confusing because they don't specify whether the older children's sizing is from age/height X, or up to age/height X (which they do for the younger ones). I thought it must be from, because it goes ...7, 8, 9, 10-11, and otherwise that would mean there was a sizing gap from age 9-10.

But it turns out it isn't, it's the other way round, so some of the age 9 clothes I'd ordered for my slightly taller than average 8.5 year old were too small.

So I returned both pairs of leggings for the largest size. When she started wearing the new ones, my daughter complained that they were falling down, but I thought it was just her penchant for not wearing underwear that was the issue, so I advised her to do so. When the issue persisted, I examined both pairs and realised that one was wide and short, and the other was narrower and longer.

I checked the measurements on the website, and neither pair was correct. One waistband was 2cm larger than stated, and the other was 2cm smaller. And both were shorter than stated, one by 4cm, and the other by 6cm.

We were also having issues with the coat. Every time she tried to put it on, the lining (which is a rather stretchy jersey fabric that isn't attached to the outer layer of the coat) would get pushed down the sleeves and tangle her hands up in it so she couldn't get them out of the other end. Even if I helped her put it on, I still always ended up having to pull the fabric back up to the top of the sleeve once the coat was on, as it always bunched around her wrists. It also seems somewhat smaller than the stated measurements, though it's more difficult to tell with that than the leggings.

So I emailed the company, and they said there was a 4% tolerance in sizing for the leggings to allow for manufacturing differences/washing shrinkage, so there was technically nothing wrong with them even if they seemed incorrect.

I also said I thought there was a design flaw in the coat, as an average 8 year old should be able to put their coat on more easily than that. And they said they had had no other complaints about the coat.

They emailed me a voucher for £20 (which apparently was meant to cover the cost of a pair of leggings plus postage, though they didn't explain that till after I queried it).

I pointed out that the legging lengths were actually both over 4% short (albeit one of them borderline, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt on that pair in case it was my measuring error), even if the waistbands were technically correct [though ridiculous].

And that not having had any other complaints doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with the coat; others might be having issues and just not said anything.

Anyway, I said I'd send the wide short leggings back for a replacement (which will be a different design now, as they've sold out of the others) and they cancelled the voucher. We'll keep the other pair (even though she'll grow out of them faster than she should).

But the only thing they offered to do about the coat is inspect it for potential twisted seams if I returned it. And replace it if they agreed it was faulty. My daughter does a number of outdoor activities (she's home educated), and that is her only coat (apart from a thin waterproof shell), so I explained I couldn't send it back because we don't have an alternative for her to wear in the meantime.

And besides, then I might end up in the position of them having the coat, and not agreeing there's anything wrong with it. It's difficult enough to find a coat she will wear, as she has sensory issues and can't stand synthetic fleece linings, so I was relieved to find one with an organic cotton lining. They do have one other that would be suitable (padded but unlined) if they agreed to replace it.

I took a photo of the coat inside out to show them the seams; the arm ones look fine; the wrist ones are a bit uneven, but the problem starts at the top of the sleeve anyway, even if the wrist seams were contributing to the issue.

I also got my daughter to take her top off and try the coat on with bare arms. Then it went on perfectly.

So I think the issue is pretty clear; that the friction from her clothing is dragging the overly stretchy lining down the sleeve, and that this is therefore a design flaw. But they don't agree, so we are stuck with this annoying coat.

The item is badly designed, so not fit for purpose.

Yes it probably cost more than a high street coat (though it was on sale; most of what I buy is). We buy a few relatively expensive items which are ethically/sustainably made, rather than more cheap ones. And I would have had the same issues finding one she'd wear on the high street anyway (it's not just the lining that's an issue, there are other rejection criteria).

We haven't had problems with any of the other coats she's had from organic brands. If they made the same items consistently, we'd just buy the same one every year, but they tend to change things every season so I have to find a different one the next time.

I didn't mean the sleeves should be attached to the coat (otherwise obviously it wouldn't be waterproof, as the stitching would let water in). I just said it to explain why it was able to stretch down the sleeve.

My daughter has sensory processing disorder, amongst other issues. She is 8 years old and on the 98th percentile for height. I have to be careful about fabric choices in garments, and never go by age-labels. She is home schooled and would need a winter coat for the same reasons. However, if I were you then I would send the coat back and find a cheap, temporary solution via a charity shop in the meantime. Take a photo of your child wearing the coat to identify the issues with the design/ production as evidence. You can use that to challenge any adverse decisions made by the seller. My daughter hates fur or synthetic fibres, but she will tolerate fleeces, and on especially cold days we can top her up with a gilet over that. So, I grab a few every winter from the local charity shops. You could do that to keep her warm while you sort out the coat issue with the supplier.

OP, honestly I would just suggest a good warm coat from Primark, Matalan, Tesco, Sainsburys or Asda for a tenner, and amongst those are plenty of choices to suit your DDs particular preferences.

This buying of expensive organic cotton woven with spider silk and gold by blind milk-fed virgins on a yoga retreat, from exclusive retailers has really backfired on you. And if you can only afford one winter coat for your DD, then you surely could not really afford the one you've bought.

You could have bought her 2 cheaper ones (or probably 4 for what you paid), and had them available for when one gets wet or muddy or left at someone's house etc. and you wouldn't be so clearly distressed and het up about this one having a non-slip sleeve lining.

Yes I decided I'll go round the charity shops tomorrow and look for something suitable. If I find something, I'll send the other one back.

I will not buy new from the high street. There is no reason other children should suffer for my daughter. And they aren't any cheaper than I paid anyway (sale cost was about half the normal price).

And it doesn't just have to be warm, anyway. She is outside for 6 hours at a time once a week, potentially in rain or snow. I don't know how many £10 coats you think there are that are suitable for that.

I have bought very nice warm ski jackets and prefectly warm dry coats for my DC from the "high street" cheaper end, and yes for a tenner. Price does not always equal quality, as you have seen. If you cannot afford posh organic stuff, then that is the only choice really. Only having one winter coat seems super poor to me, like my grandmother back in wartime, but having only one expensive one seems foolish when kids drop it in puddles and rake it through mud. Your decisions seem incongruous to me. I don't think everyone can afford to make the supposed ethical choice you have.

How much was the coat, OP? It seems to be causing you unnecessary stress.

She has never needed two coats at once. We have never left it at anyone's house, or dropped it in a puddle, and if it did need washing I'd just do it promptly before the next time it was needed. So maybe when people buy more expensive things they value them more, and aren't so careless with them

It was £18. The ones I saw on the Primark website to compare when you suggested it were between £17 and £19, and not of comparable specification (i.e. not even waterproof, let alone her criteria as well).

And this coat is of perfectly good quality (i.e. the materials). It is just flawed in its design. I'd have the same issue if I'd ordered a flawed coat online from a high street retailer, so why you are so determined to make this about the coat's source, I don't know.

Maybe I'm being daft here (I'm not a seamstress) but if the coat meets your very strict requirements in all other ways and was less than twenty quid (which lets face it is not very expensive at all for a children's coat with high quality materials, as per your words), AND you can't send it back because you don't have a spare coat then --

Why not just cut the lining out of the coat? If its a thin jersey fabric then put a cardigan on under the coat?

Or is there padding etc that the lining is keeping in place?

If there is padding and the lining has to be there, can you not just tack the jersey material to the padding at intervals down the sleeve?

I think that would probably be easier than hunting through charity shops for something organic / not high street that meets all the other reqs, and having to send that one back.

I also think YABU. It's almost the end of November. I've done it myself, taken tags off things and then realized actually it's a bit tight and theres not a lot of growing room -- it's just one of these things. And if it really is as special as you're making it out to be (sleeves aside) then at

And I didn't have any winter coat at all for several years, while I saved up for my current one. It's my most expensive possession (even at sale price), and it was worth the wait.

In the meantime I wore a thirdhand huge thin (organic cotton) fleece jacket, which was obsolete uniform for a local shop I don't work in, that someone gave me.

So I'm hardly likely to skip along to Matalan as a solution (not that they have anything suitable or much cheaper either, since I don't think a faux fur gilet or a biker jacket would help at forest school).

She already has a thin waterproof coat; she needs a warm one. Which, when it is e.g. snowing, she will be wearing over other layers already, so without a lining as well it would be too cold.

She doesn't have a combination of clothing that would achieve the same number of layers and actually fit on her, as the lining is obviously bigger than her form-fitting clothing, as you need more ease in outerwear, so I'd have to buy something new anyway to achieve that.

I'm not looking for something organic in the charity shop, just something that fits her sensory criteria. I just wouldn't buy new high street stuff because of its ethics.

I didn't say it was a bit tight. I don't think that's anything to do with why the sleeves are pulling down.

Perhaps not matalan but trespass has a waterproof coat for £20

https://www.trespass.com/fame-girls-waterproof-parka-jacket#color=Khaki&size=11/12?gclid=Cj0KCQiAq97uBRCwARIsADTziyZFvDSaUpAkMIvNS3wl5nZxlD-MC1T7UT57PTQDzHWpjtCAfOKE54aAkLwEALww_wcB

Or h&m padded and waterproof £30

https://m2.hm.com/m/engb/productpage.0625027010.html?prr_oyster=hfrHQ3ku7Q&gclid=Cj0KCQiAq97uBRCwARIsADTziyY1KYFWLDIDZPEQt2BblvCN3uoTKutEUUqIsMAS636Gxo5Jw5V7jgaAjxSEALww_wcB

And another one from tresspass £19

www.trespass.com/maybole-girls-waterproof-jacket#color=Pink&size=9/10?gclid=Cj0KCQiAq97uBRCwARIsADTziyYTr7Grv7st1ppWokhkwY7NeoGNNDH1HikSUi8LTqDjsp3cX4sMR4YaAmOLEALw_wcB

I've had an amazing waterproof from Home Bargains for my DD I think it was £16 and that came with waterproof trousers too.

I really don't mean this to come across as bitchy, but you are coming across very martyrish (especially with your last post about doing without a coat because you had to save for an expensive one). If you cannot afford £20 for a spare coat for your daughter then is forest school really a sensible idea? I've been poor, dirt poor in fact. I've skipped dinner so my kids can eat, thankfully a long time ago now. But they've always had coats and shoes. Whether that was hand me downs, primark, home bargains etc... it's pretty important. What if it DID get lost? What if it got damaged beyond repair? Is your daughter supposed to have no coat (like you, for three years??) because you won't shop on the high street? When you wash it do you have to just stay indoors until it's dry? I'd say having a back up coat -- even if it's not ideal specification is a really good idea.

Forest school is in a court order, so I can't stop sending her just to save money. And I wouldn't anyway; it's very good for her in multiple ways.

Do I need to give everyone all my financial details? My partner earns £17k (and gets paid less every year, and I don't just mean in real terms). We do not spend more on clothes and food than anyone else; it's just different stuff. We would be struggling financially whether we bought an £18 organic/recycled coat, or a £20+ mainstream one like you linked to (which have fleece linings anyway).

So has my daughter always had coats and shoes. Just not unnecessary duplicates. If it got lost or damaged I'd do what I'm doing tomorrow and look for one in a charity shop, at least as a temporary solution.

I can't rely on charity shops by default though as I don't know if I'll find anything suitable at all, and I don't have bus fare to get to them in the week (at the weekend I can use my partner's ticket). And if you do find something that seems to be suitable, you don't know the spec. You can't tell from looking if something is waterproof, shower-proof, or not water-resistant at all. So it's safer to buy it online new, where you know what you're getting. And can send it back if necessary (assuming the retailer isn't being awkward...).

I don't know how long it takes other people to wash things. I'd wash it as soon as we got in, and it would dry overnight on the heated airer. She doesn't need to wear it at midnight, so what is the issue?

If it were me I'd unpick the bottom hem a bit, go up into the armpit of the coat and stitch the lining to the seam allowance of the armpit. So not stitching through the coat itself just using the seam allowances to join the lining to the shell. You might even be able to do this without unpicking the hem if you carefully felt for the seam allowance with your fingers.

You do sound like a martyr OP which is why you're getting a bit of a hard time here.

Anything could be attached anywhere. They use taped seams rather than stitched ones. So there would be no needle holes

I think you are very detailed focused, and very rigid in your thinking. All the measuring of the leggings etc was baffling. The downside of online shopping is sizing is pot luck to be honest.
That aside, I've had a coat with twisted sleeves, but you have to return it for the seller to refund?

Fucking hell OP, your lives sound absolutely miserable.

Years without a coat for you, only one warm winter coat for dd and no other options.

Could you possibly get a job? A few waitressing shifts over the Christmas period and you could all have a few new things, make life a bit more cheerful.

You are putting your ethical values above the comfort of your family. If you're on Facebook people buy and sell bundles of clothes all the time, you could probably get dd a huge bundle including a coat and a few fleeces for £20 or so. If they are high street non ethical then the harm has already been done by the first buyer, you'll be buying 2nd hand so not directly supporting. I don't really think you can afford to be too picky.

What does dd's father think - does he pay maintenance, or is he able to buy her a coat?

“If you don't reject the goods within the first 30 days, and find a fault within the first six months of possessing your faulty goods, you'll need to give the retailer a chance to make a repair or replacement. If that's unsuccessful, you can then ask for a refund.”

From the Which website.

The company are in their right to ask for the coat to be returned for their inspection.

Also, you say above it’s flawed by design, so it may not actually be faulty. The coat may not suit your child, but doesn’t mean it’s faulty as such.

Whereabouts roughly do you live? I have boxes of old Boden clothes that I'd like to get rid of. Happy to donate to a fellow MNer who is struggling.

winter coats

Winter coats for under £20 and free delivery.

I don't think people are getting this. We have sufficient money to meet our daily needs, and I save up for larger expenses. She has plenty of indoor clothing. There's just no need for two coats usually, and there wouldn't be at all if this one had been well-designed. I do not need donations.

At some point I will have enough money to buy her another decent coat. Just not right at this moment, as it would have to come out of the grocery budget.

As we have already established, properly weatherproof coats on the high street are no cheaper than I paid, so stop pretending my ethics are making me neglect my child.

There were five charity shops where I went. One no longer sells children's clothing. Two didn't have anything the right size. The two which did, didn't have weather-appropriate ones (let alone meeting any other criteria). So I have bought her a non-waterproof one for £2.50 which is too large (the body is OK but the sleeves are too long, so they're folded back), and she will have to squeeze her shell on over the top of it if it rains, for now.

Hopefully they will replace it or refund me when I send it back. If not it'll just have to wait a few weeks till I can get another.

I will keep the charity shop one as a spare afterwards, even though it will never be needed.

Loveislandaddict I filtered that link to waterproof coats only (which is required when a child is outside for 6 hours at a time in all weathers), and of the 4 coats it returned of the right size, one is a shell (which she already has) and the other three are only actually water-resistant (i.e. for light showers) when you look at the details.

It is actually quite hard to find an affordable weather-appropriate coat regardless of source, let alone taking into account the other requirements.

I don't need help finding a suitable replacement coat though (so far nobody has done so anyway; they keep linking unsuitable things). I just need the company to admit their coat is flawed.

Thinking about the original jacket.... To get jacket sleeves to slide off/on easily they really need to be lined with shiny polyester or (expensive) silk.

If you are buying from an organic & ethical range, they're not going to use polyester because it's basically plastic and they're not going to use silk because it's an animal products/v expensive.

Even if they had designed the sleeves with an organic cotton sateen lining they still would have been quite grippy. Cotton jersey does sound a rubbish choice for a lining, but I suppose their ethics limit their practical choices.

They do use polyester in other coats. It's just usually recycled.

Definitely a design flaw if they're not opposed to using polyester then,

I suppose they could have been targeting parents who won't buy polyester at all for tactile or ethical reasons.

It does sound a really uncomfortable design, I hate it when I wear a jacket with a cardy and the sleeves don't align properly