Question time man top 5 percent.

[refraction]

Did anyone see the man on QT asking about tax?

Apparently he doesn't even think he is in the top 50 percent of earners.

All doctors earn more apparently and solicitors.

How out of touch with reality?

He didn't come across well and very out of touch.

I can’t get over the poster who said a 4 bed house wasn’t normal. Really? I’m in the North East, earn minimum wage and I live in one. Lots of people I know do. Oh, and earning £80,000 doesn’t make you rich. That’s just silly

But it does put you in the top 5% of earners, which is the point.

Butcontractors used to be able to act as limited companies, so there were tax advantages. Any contractors who now work in government contacts are now subject to IR35, which brings them under the auspices of PAYE

The IR35 rules have been around a long time, and contractors who were effectively employees should not have been gaining a tax advantage. The law wasn't really enforced though.

Now the rules are enforced because the employer is now liable and naturally doesn't want the risk of being caught.

No one should expect sympathy that they can no longer evade tax because the law is now being enforced.

A contractor who is genuinely not caught by the rules (ie they are not effectively an employee) will be unaffected.

@legoiseverywhere
I know teachers on 60k & deputy heads on 80k plus. I know GPs working 2 days a week with lots of holiday on 50k & I know police on 40-50k. All in their 30s & in London.

I think your friends are telling you porkies.
The photos I've posted are screen shots of current salaries for teachers, GPS and police officers. A Deputy Head is on a different scale than a teacher as they have additional responsibilities. As the max GP salary is approx 88k, your friend working for 2 days will only earn 2/5 of this amount, which works out at 32.2k and the average salary of a police officer is 31k.

@FOJeremy

The reference was to four bed houses in London. Such a house in your neck of the woods is far far cheaper than one in London.

My 3 bed house in the NW is worth 200k. My mum lives in an almost identical one in London and it's worth 850k.

I can’t get over the poster who said a 4 bed house wasn’t normal. Really? I’m in the North East, earn minimum wage and I live in one

But surely you can see that, in almost all circumstances, a 4 bed house is not affordable to someone on NMW and in your case there must be multiple factors that don't apply in a lot of cases in play, such as very cheap area, bought when prices were lower, you used to earn more, you have an inheritance, your partner earns more, previous housing equity used as deposit, etc etc.

Plus, just going by typical house size, most houses will be 2 or 3 bedrooms with fewer having one, or 4 or more bedrooms.

Blankscreen

Thing is, paying a bit more tax is fine if it's not you having to do it. When you've set up your life bought your house made financial commitments and then the rules are suddenly changed it doesn't seem particularly fair

I earn under 80,000 a year, but if Labour get in and I have to pay, what was it, about 100 quid extra a year? Then I'll happily pay that if it means the gap between the rich and the poor in this country starts to close again.

If you think it's "not fair" then you need to grow up and realise that this is the way things work in life. Things change and you need to plan for changes.

@Soontobe60 no my friends aren't telling me porkies as I know none of them are entitled to CB based on their earnings. Plus I've worked in many finance departments of schools & local councils.

As I mentioned they all work in inner London so I'm not sure why you are showing my data for the UK?

Here are some jobs for GPs

jobs.bmj.com/jobs/gp-salaried-/-70-000-99-999/full-time/

Teaching jobs

www.tes.com/jobs/browse?siteCountry=gb&locations=United%20Kingdom%3AEngland&workplaces=Secondary&keywords=&positions=Teaching%20and%20Lecturing&positions=Teacher&positions=Head%20of%20Department&positions=Subject%20Leadership%2FExcellence%20Teacher&positions=Deputy%2FAssistant%20of%20Department%2FFaculty

From the Met website for new recruits

As a new Police Constable, you'll receive a basic starting salary of £22,443 plus £6,663 London allowances. This rises to £37,254 plus London allowances in line with relevant Home Office guidelines and police regulations.

and a link to salaries below, plus you get free travel on the Underground & buses 7 days a week regardless if you are on duty or not.

www.metfriendly.org.uk/services/police-finance-information/police-pay/

There are some teachers on high pay

Here are the pay scales

neu.org.uk/advice/pay-scales-2018-19

If you get yourself HIGH on the leadership scale and into head teacher area, then you get above £60K in London.

You have to get high on that scale though.

@chomalungma the teachers I know on 50-60k are on the UPS scale with a TRL or 2 which are for heads of department etc

I'm in the south east, earn £32k a year and have a mortgage on the 2 bed flat I live in with my children. Whereas some pp who earn minimum wage in parts of the north have 4 bed houses. Increasing tax for the likes of me feels quite harsh, as realistically in the south east living costs are so high. It's not the fault of landlords either, it's the fault of government planning.

the teachers I know on 50-60k are on the UPS scale with a TRL or 2 which are for heads of department etc

You can see the scales as well as I can.

Most teachers won't be in the UPS scale and most teachers won't have a TLR.

So most teachers aren't on £60k, even in London.

It's perfectly possible to know teachers on £60k plus, but most teachers won't be.

Increasing tax for the likes of me feels quite harsh, as realistically in the south east living costs are so high

That's true.

Living costs are also high in many cities outside of the South East as well.

A fair tax system is very hard to implement.

Are you adding the TRLs to the salaries?

Yes I don't know what percentage of teachers in inner London are on the UPS scale I never said I did, I also never said "most teachers earn'...

Yes I don't know what percentage of teachers in inner London are on the UPS scale I never said I did, I also never said "most teachers earn

I'm confused.

The original comment was to @legoiseverywhere

You then replied to the comment about 'your friends' as @whopiedo

Why did you tell @Soontobe60 that she was wrong about your friends when she wasn't talking about your friends?

This North South divide has always been a difficult issue. in 1984 we bought out first house down here. My husband was a teacher and they just could not get people to move here (outer London) so had to offer school flats to some teachers. We rented one to start with and I remember in my first pregnancy sleeping on the floor on the mattress on one until we did manage to buy our house which was about 3 or 4 times the price of my husband's larger 3 bed room house in the North of England which he sold. There was a London weighting - extra pay for teachers and it was almost a joke. The housing (and childcare) expenses were many many times higher down here than in the North and the London weighting hardly began to touch that difference - hence the provision of a school flat etc. The positon is no better (probably worse) today. (I am from the NE originally but live in London).

We end up witha lot of unfairness. My son has just moved house and his stamp duty down here in the SE was a third of a year's salary - just on stamp duty alone whereas buying that house in the NE would not have had anything like as much stamp duty payable. (This is his second house as he moved for work so he does not get a first time buyer stamp duty exemption).

My point here is that yes for many jobs you may well get higher pay in London or Oxford than in Sunderland for many jobs but often it does not reflect the extra rent or mortgage or childcare costs - inneer London better nurseries will charge something like £20k - £25k per baby in full time nursery which is what you need if both parents work and you are back when you have a little baby rather than a 3 year old.

So somehow tax as to reflect average costs for that area. If all your income which is taxed at 20% plus NI goes on rent and childcare which is of course the norm even with 2 salaries for many in the SE then ever other bit of your "spare" income after tax is being taxed at 42% tax /NI (or more and very much more under Corbyn). Whereas those who live with their parents and have no rent to pay and/or have no children have lots of spare untaxed income and tax might feel fair on them although I suppose they have made an active choice to live with mother for life and never to have a child.

So somehow tax as to reflect average costs for that area

Everyone's costs are different.

A person in their 50s who has paid off their mortgage, has no kids and lives with someone else and they are both on £40k has a lot less 'costs' than someone on £40, with a mortgage, kids and doesn't have a partner.

A fair tax system is probably very hard to achieve.

It's all very well taxing 'large corporations' by raising their tax burden. However tax rules for businesses affect ALL companies, right down to small businesses which have less than a handful of staff. And the 'large corporations' will respond by making cuts at the bottom of their organisation, not the top.

inner London better nurseries will charge something like £20k - £25k per baby

The fact that you have used the word 'better' shows that there is an element of choice where people are paying these kinds of nursery fees. There will be other nurseries in the area which charge less.

It's like moaning that private school fees eat into your income. Well yes, private school costs money, but it's a choice.

Labour are proposing a two tier corporation tax rate, aren't they? So smaller businesses will be taxed at the lower rate of CT.

It's not a new concept, and has been applied even in the very recent past.

It is only because I have not looked at the prices of cheaper ones. Let me look now and it needs to be somewhere that will take a baby, not just toddlers and is near work/where people live and takes them for full working hours et 8 - 6pm.

And once you start charging more for nurseries etc, then people demand more money to work there, thus increasing the charges etc.

Which means you need to pay more money to people so they can afford the cost of living there.

Which means costs go up.

Cost of living : if you have 2800 a month in Newcastle that is ( random web) equivalent to 4600 in London, taking into account a wide range of factors, based on a family of 4

That's a ratio of 1.64

Median salary is 34 in London , 22 elsewhere

Ratio of 1.55

So living in London is more expensive, but taking into account the salary difference, Londoners are not getting a hugely raw deal. Certainly not enough to suggest that 80k salaries are not really large if you are London.

I am going to have tive up and three in the inner London area I looked at say fees on request. All I know is what is the cost for family members quoted above. I doubt there is a vast difference in cost as the main cost is wages paid per hour.

I think the guy was confusing income with wealth. He doesn't see himself as rich, so finds it hard to believe he can be in the top 5% income wise.
Watching his reaction, I would imagine he still doesn't believe it!