Missed 3 hours of lunch break

[ThereIsNoLeftFalangie]

AIBU to feel quite pissed off that I've missed out on 3 hours of my lunch break.
Work in a school, have been on quite a few trips for the last term. On trips the children get 30 mins lunch with staff eating alongside and supervising. Normally at school staff will get an hour lunch which is not paid. I don't mind missing out 30mins on the odd trip but it's taking the micky when im owed 2 hours. We're all expected to do things out of goodwill but thoses favours are never reciprocated by management. If they had to pay me for all the times I've worked passed my finish time they'd be in for a shock. Should I mention the 3 hours im owed?

Last school I worked at, years before the staff decided to work to rule for a number of reasons. And got all their unions involved.
One of which was working for free.
Teachers and Ta's had at various points added up their paid hours and the unpaid hours due to the expectations of the school.
A lot of the Ta's where paid less than the minimum wage. Some of the teachers weren't that far off.

By the time I started everyone who had to work over lunch, go on residentials, stay over because of whatever event not already contracted for where either given time in lieu or they could claim the pay. It worked out well and absences were down.

Schools are imo daft not to do this.
Staff can fit in medical appointments easier
Attend their own children's events
Have a lie in lol
Go away on holiday a day earlier/later

So many benefits to it.

Some weeks I would work 9 - 5 with no break. Contracted hours 9 - 3:30.
Including lunch, I would lose around 10 hours a week. There's only so much you can give for free before you start to realise they are taking the piss.

And it starts off small extra 30 minutes here. An hour there.
Then you sit at the end of the month and realise how much you have given them for free. And if they hadn't taken this time, maybe you could have got a part-time job elsewhere. Or wouldn't have needed to spend so much on childcare.

Wow! Im overwhelmed by the comments on here.

I am qualified as a teacher but I work as a Learning Mentor and TA. Before you all start, the marking and planning put me off being a teacher.

It's not just about the 3 hours, it's the fact that this gets brushed under the carpet when it has been raised. It's that expectation that we just do it. On the trip days I was working from 8:30 till 5.15, I had lunch with the children, during this time we have to supervise and support children, yes I may be eating but Im not having anytime to myself, im still working. There is no such thing as time off in lieu at my place. Sometimes quite rarely we are told we can miss planning meetings and leave a little early. It may not seem like a lot of money to some but 3 hours is around £27 for me. Some days I spend more in nursery fees than what I earn as a TA in a day.

My start time in 8.30 and I finish at 3.30, with an hour lunch break unpaid. We did used to have 30mins and start later in the morning but the school wanted us to start at8:30 but did not want to pay us the extra 30mins so gave us an hour lunch.we are told to clock in with our fobs at 8.15 anything after that is late. When parents turn up late to collect children, it's us that ends up taking them to the office to make calls, add an extra 15mins there. We cover lessons for 45mins when teachers are off, we participate in planning. We are even told to 'guide' NQTs. Yet none of this is reflected in our pay. We have to meet targets for our performance management yet when we do there is still no increase on the pay scale as its been frozen for support staff. There is very little give just a whole lot of take.

We have all been told that there is only enough in the budget for the next 3 years for TAs, this has been said quite often.So there's a lot of uncertainty on whether our jobs will remain. There's a lot of fear if you say anything you'll be one of the first out.

This is why I stopped being a TA and moved into pastoral care. The money is better and you are not treated like a piece of shit on someone's shoe.

You have my sympathy, op.

It is standard to work through some/most/all of your lunch break in the private sector.

It sounds like you are support staff. Learning support assistants are paid a pittance for what they do and you should not accept this at all. Yes teachers don't get breaks but that's the nature of the job, they can also choose to make a point over this if it bothers them.
OP you need to bring this up, good will in schools is lacking these days due to budget cuts but losing out on hours must be addressed. If you don't, then the school will continue to take the piss. Yes you might be 'that person' but someone needs to address it. I would suggest you tally up your hours accrued and take the time off in lieu rather than asking for overtime.

@Villageidiots just because you're happy to tolerate shit working conditions doesn't mean other people should accept it too.

As a manager, the one thing I insist on is that all my staff take their breaks. I don't care if all they do is sit in the staff room and watch YouTube on their phones, but they're all entitled to have a break from work during the day.

We're paid hourly and our lunch break is unpaid. I'm not loyal enough to give away 10 hours of my time away for free each month I'm afraid - if they want me to work over my full time hours they can pay me overtime!

Working after finishing time as support staff for free is absolutely not on and not reflective of all schools. Ours get overtime or time in lieu- they choose.

But lunchtimes on a trip are not paid back.

When parents turn up late to collect children, it's us that ends up taking them to the office to make calls, add an extra 15mins there. We cover lessons for 45mins when teachers are off, we participate in planning. We are even told to 'guide' NQTs.

This isn’t standard for TAs in any school I’ve worked in, I have to say.

As a teacher in Ireland I find it disgusting that teachers in the U.K. accept they they DON’T get a lunch break!!we get out half hour break, and we take it! NOBODY in my school stays in their classroom at break!

I agree with Walkaround and as I work in secondary schools, I think the staff are in particular need of that break. I am support staff but I am the only person that carries out my job in the schools I work with, i hardly ever work with children but my office is near a corridor that is away from the teachers and as a result it is noisy and sometimes chaotic. Having worked in the most central government you can think of I can't get my head around the contrast in working conditions. I will take myself out for lunch to get a coffee as I need the fresh air and it helps me focus again. The calmness of an office environment is a given but it is certainly not in a school with some impulsive, loud teenagers that are still learning how to behave. To me, it is essential to get a break from that.

@ThereIsNoLeftFalangie

I honestly think this is what the NEU should be talking about.

Please write to them.

You are articulate & understand the issues - you'll make a good case.

True, it's unlikely anything will come of your individual case but the NEU need to start looking at the way support staff are treated in many schools. It is a crucial part of how working conditions are worsening (and I really mean 'how' - it's symbolic of the syndrome).

And don't bother going via your union rep - who may well not be very good.

We all - all of us - need to talk about this.

Thank you for posting. It's been really informative.

For what it's worth, I think the NEU spent years focusing on the issue of 'professionalism': concentrating on battles around having teaching be seen as an accredited profession; maintaining the 'boundaries' between teaching qualifications and apprenticeships; between teaching and other school staff.

It fought the incremental increase of teacher workload and won a small victory with inset days and non-contact time

BUT

It failed (until very recently) to consider itself a union for other school-workers and has really been on the backfoot about pay and conditions. I honestly think that looking at TA pay and conditions, linking that to teachers p and c (which is surely a huge factor in the poor retention rate) is a necessary starting point for political action (which needs to be taken).

I love their school cuts campaign - which builds alliances with parents and explains how all of this links up - and, ultimately, impacts on children.

But the illegality of what is going on with TAs and other support staff in schools really, really needs highlighting.

I sympathise OP. In my last TA role we were paid 8.45 - 3.15 with an hour unpaid lunch, but were expected to be at school no later than 8.30, ideally 8.15. I don’t think there was a day I left before 4.30. Week long residentials with exactly the same responsibilities as a teacher but paid our usual (5.5 hour) wage. Rarely had lunch breaks, as was usually covering PPA for the afternoon and therefore setting up the classroom, reading lesson plans, getting resources. Exactly the same with ferrying late/left kids to and from the office. I covered two full afternoons weekly (12.45-3.15) for PPA cover, and on the other three was doing interventions which again took lunchtime to prepare. We were expected to stay after school for KS/planning meetings, training, man stalls at school fairs, etc etc. On a minimum hourly wage, that we were losing out on.
It was all take, take, take. Working my bum off all day from at least 8-5 with out a break and less than £50 a day to show for it wasn’t worth it.

I do t think you can be pulled into a disciplinary for not arriving 15 minutes before your directed start time either?
I can understand needing to be ready to work at 8.30 if you start then but some people can do that with 8.25 arrival. Some need time for coffee and chat.

I arrive 8.25 for 8.30 start as bring a flask and set up the work I need to do the evening before. I walk in, dump bag and sit at table and work.

I do know schools also use the "future of TAs is unknown" as a stick to beat you with.
Those who give their time are free are indicated as those they'll keep.

Those who choose to go on the 3 day residential will get a day off in leiu.
They aren't expected to take on night duty and get all meals provided. No one is expected to go and offer is open to all staff and not just those who work the class or key stage. No one is specifically asked either.
It's a case of x dates, x package - come and see slt if you want to go.

We spent a whole day at a theatre performance with our class recently. But we as a class team decided we wanted to do this and approached slt to ask if we could. Slt would never expect us too and some staff couldn't commit but others asked if they could join in.

Some schools are basically saving money by employing support staff on very low hourly rates and then expecting them to take on responsibilities not in their employment contracts and for which they should be paid more than the hourly rate they are on, and are then expecting them to pretend they are earning an annual salary and can therefore be expected to work unlimited hours per week, way in excess of the number agreed in their employment contract, without paying them overtime or giving them time off in lieu. Of course that is unacceptable.

I remember asking how much time/overtime I could get for going over hours on a trip and they took off half hour lunch even though we are still supervising.

If she's not paid for lunch she will be a TA. I would mention you need an afternoon off for something and would it be ok to take back the time you are owed. Teachers are paid a salary and are expected to work usually 10hrs on top of school day (but in reality it's much more). However, they are entitled to a lunch break and to leave at the end of the school day (unless they have a meeting).

I’d suggest you get a job elsewhere and then you’d realise for how many professions this is the norm. I’ve been paid 30hr a week whilst working 45-50 for at least the last 6 years. I’ve never had a lunch break (too busy). I frequently get asked to cover at weekends (no pay). My holidays have been cancelled. Should we accept it? No. Is this an industry with a Union? Yes who are so embedded with management that they don’t raise an eyebrow. It’s only going to get worse with the financial crisis that’s about to hit. Be very careful what you moan about.

Also, as a trained teacher who chooses to work as a TA for reduced stress and work/life balance I find my workload constantly increasing. I plan, teach, mark and take groups in addition to all of the admin tasks associated with my job. I take out and teach the lowest ability children who, as lovely as they are, are hard work yet if they progress well, the teacher gets performance related pay increase and I get.... nothing. Also, to save £ on supply teachers 2 TAs take children for ppa time. I'm paid £8 odd an hour and I have extra responsibilities. A job I love is becoming a chore hence why I'm looking into another career path.

It doesn’t matter where you work or what you do. There are many employers who take the goddamn piss as regards time owed to employees.

I work in a shop and regularly work past my finish time, when I was a carer, the night carer would kd regularly be late or not turn up at all and I'd have to wait for relief. Unfortunately real life isn't all about fairness and sometimes you get screwed but 3 hours isn't really worth getting a bad rep for imo

Are you joking?
I once had no lunch breaks for almost a full academic year. A boy in my class had sen but hadn't received any funding when he was with me, so he had no extra support at lunchtime.
Hth

Wow, Op ignore the idiots. You are not being unreasonable... really surprised by the people on here answering this. And for a start you should never ever give a damn about “being that person” or whatever other nonsense people may or may not think of you. When I was a teenager I let a boss treat me like this until one day my stepdad stormed in and demanded my lunch break. The boss never treated me like it again. Ever since this happened I demand and dictate how I am treated in the workplace, I have done very well from doing this.. I know my worth and the value I bring to the job I do, would I ever let anyone treat me like that? Nope.

This is not likely to be a teacher or ta I'd say.