only odd men join organisations like the Masons

[GoodGriefSunshine]

Maybe I have just been unfortunate but the only men I have ever met that belonged to the Masons (...Rotary etc) have been kind of odd. Let's just say, not attractive to women types. Mummy's boys, odd-bods who are into train spotting and sci-fi in too big a way. The kind of men you feel may be a little on the boring side. What sort of men join these predominantly men's clubs and what is appealing about wearing aprons and performing bizarre rituals?

Although your question isn't worded brilliantly, my grandad who was an abusive and violent alcoholic for 60+ years was a member of the RAOB. Odious organisation (his lodge/chapter whatever). Its running on the bones of its arse because younger people aren't going into it because it is so strange. He put it and drink above family and his progression was up to the top with stupid "jewels" and an apron and he was adamant that he was so highly thought of he had to go to all meetings "or else!" . He did work on the accounts etc and behind the scenes too.

They took savings from him from the sixties up to 2011 when his dementia was too bad for him to physically go anymore. This money was allegedly to support his widow or children when he died. Because of his dementia we knew nothing about it until he was visited by an old neighbour (whilst still at home) who happened to also be a member who said something odd that got us thinking. We looked into it but according to them because he hadn't paid consecutive monthly payments for approx 3 years by then (because of his dementia and the "secret" organisation meaning we couldn't be told) he had forfeited the right to the money (aka: we reckon they've absorbed it into funds)

We asked if they'd pay up to what he had done monthly into his care home fees (as we didn't want it, that club broke my grans heart) and they were outraged we would dare ask. We went to their head place in Harrogate and reported it there and they essentially said it was just a town name thing and they had nothing to do with it so couldn't help.

Not one of them went to see this "highly thought of brother", they didn't do much as post him a Christmas card for the entire 8 years he was in a home. They didn't even call and ask how he was or do anything for /about him. Yet to read their website they are all charitable and look after their 'brothers' and the community. What a load of rubbish.

I'm sorry this turned into a rant but it's cathartic to get it out.

The fact that Kenneth Noye -gangster, police murderer and all round good guy was helped out by a detective from his lodge tells me everything I need to know about how this organisation operates

Can you chuck me a source for that, I'm interested. At his interview, a non-Mason used a Mason handshake to give Noye the idea that the detective was a Mason, at which Noye offered him £1 million to help him abscond. The detective reported the conversation and it helped convict him.

Noye was a mason and in a lodge where there were policemen (almost inevitably) but he was also a police informant.

@ShatnersWig

Hi well I was actually reading this article in Vice which links to further reports by the Independent.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/xw589j/its-not-just-westminster-where-freemasons-still-have-influence

I then went to this slightly convoluted article on Byline which includes Noye in a general discussion on police murder investigations and Corruption etc.( Sorry I can’t link it but the photo shows the front page ). I haven’t read it all the way through but there are lots of the newspaper front pages from
the time which are fascinating.

A repeating comment here is that many Masons that people have known are basically older white men who hate women....

@GoodGriefSunshine

This is a pretty dull thread considering it's just a set of repeated stereotypes.

I'm not a Mason but I sure as hell now am wondering why some people have partners when there's often so much hate for men as a sex on here.

Missing the point, but what's wrong with liking sci-fi or trains?

I think you;d have to know an awful lot of Masons or Rotary/Round Table men to make such a sweeping generalisation.
I have known one person who was in the Rotary Club - he was a nice man and it seemed that their activities were largely to do with collecting for anf putting events on for Charities (eg they organize a large vintage car rally every year, which raises a lot of money, they also organise a santa claus on his sleigh to go round all the streets in our town collecting for charity)

I'm not keen people not being allowed to join organization because of their sex though - that does strike me as outdated and peculiar.

I've known two people who were Masons. One was not a very nice man, the other was an OK man, but socially a bit awkward. So I guess they could both be seen as odd.

I don't think my small experience qualifies me to make any kind of judgement though.
I do think any organization that uses its influence to protect criminal fellow members is deplorable - If that takes place I would call it corrupt and immoral rather than odd.

@ShatnersWig

It's the WI you have to worry about. All those weird jam making rituals. Charity jumble sales? Ha, it's all a smokescreen.

Oh bloody hell.

Outed.

(Glad you didn't mention chutney...)

I'm not keen people not being allowed to join organization because of their sex though - that does strike me as outdated and peculiar.

Well, sorry. I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to just enjoy the company of their own sex sometimes.

DH’s grandfather was a Mason, my great grandfather was one too. Father in law was one too for years but didn’t bother with it when they moved across country. He says it was fun and I went to one or two very nice evenings when he was Master of his Lodge for a year (think that’s the right term).

DH’s grandfather used to hint like house bricks that if DH wanted to join he only needed to “say the word and I’ll get you in”. It never appealed to DH though.

Well, sorry. I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to just enjoy the company of their own sex sometimes.

No need to be sorry - we simply disgree.

The only Mason I've ever known was my uncle who joined for business/charity reasons, and he was a lovely kind man.

Well, sorry. I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to just enjoy the company of their own sex sometimes

Well nothing stops a group of guys going down the pub and having a drink if they want. I think if people worked in an organisation where their careers were being hindered or other people’s advanced on the basis of their membership to a secretive organisation then I don’t think people would find it so benign.

Loads of Masons in my partner's family including his dad, uncles, cousins. His maternal grandfather was very high up in the organisation. All of them working class men with wives and families they aren't abusive to. The maternal grandfather was a life long teetotaller having been raised by an abusive alcoholic father himself.

There are issues around the Orange Order here, but most Lodge members don't involve themselves in the sectarian nonsense. There are also issues around business contacts (many members are tradesmen, plumbers, roofers,, sparkies etc) and women being excluded from that.

Mostly though they're just running various events from bingo nights to charity drives to hosting people's wedding receptions.

My grandfather was a mason. He was a very generous, kind man.

I'm a woman in Rotary, and it's nothing like the masons. Our main function is to raise money for local charities. The men are an extremely mixed group of individuals, as are the women.
So you, OP, can go fuck yourself, extremely vigorously

I’m uncomfortable with secretive organisations such as the Masons, but my great grandfather was one. He died in 1910 so I never met him but, according to his obituaries in national newspapers he sounds anything but boring!

I know a few Rotarians. All men of a certain age, one a little dull but very kind, the others all more than averagely interesting and entertaining.

And I think your views on knitting and the WI are about a quarter of a century out of date!

Not a slight on the masons btw - it's just a different organisation.

My Dad was in the masons, and My ex's Dad was. My Dad is lovely can't say the same about the ex father in law but they both independently said that they and everyone who joins had to do something very personal, but it was a top secret. Always wondered what it was. My ex always thought that it was something sexual...but he was always one for weird, over thinking behaviour!

My ex always thought that it was something sexual...

literally choking on my coffee!!!

The men are an extremely mixed group of individuals, as are the women. So you, OP, can go fuck yourself, extremely vigorously

well that escalated

I can say that while some may be odd to others that is not always the case. I like to think that my brothers are as normal as anyone else. I am a proud Freemason as well as a firefighter/paramedic. Freemasonry doesn't cater solely to the odd but to those who want to be a part of the oldest fraternal brotherhood in the world and who want to become better than what they currently are. There are many sects of Freemasonry that have a large participation of women as well.

@Medic13256

Hey Medic.... another emergency service worker here. I have a couple of questions: Do you discuss your membership with your colleagues and in what way would you say you have become a better person through your links with Freemasonry?

Medic13256 I hear this 'become better' or 'it made me a better man'. What does that mean? I'm not being facetious. I genuinely want to know as this seems to be a key aspect to being a Mason - becoming 'better'. Better in what way? How does being a Mason make you 'better'? Surely being a decent person and helping others is just something people can do without becoming a Mason. Or is there more to it?

I don’t know much about the rotary club. But I used to manage a small hotel that was used by the masons for retreats.

Every single one I met was a misogynistic twat.

It’s all well and good saying that the men you know who are masons are lovely family me etc. But it’s the way they act when they don’t think anyone can see that tells the true story.

Great examples of conversations I’ve over heard:
A senior lawyer telling another Mason (who he managed in a professional capacity) that he’d got a promotion because the other two, more experienced, candidates were women and ‘they’ll be off having babies soon’.
It’s a shame that so and so is black because he’s a nice chap. If only we could lighten him up a bit.
One guy, when talking about how his wife had asked them to raise money for a women’s refuge - well if they won’t spread their legs at home what the fuck do they think should happen.

Usually they would stay for a week. On the last 2 days the wife’s would stay. In front of their wives they appear like upstanding slightly right of liberal men. Their wives had no idea the shit they were peddling the days before. I’m sure they would say their husbands are lovely, kind men.