Where does law stand on how behind a child has to be to trigger Educational Phycologist

[Childlaw2014]

My dd is one of the eldest in year 2.

Didn't have her alphabet, (tutor over half term sorted that out)

Is on level 5 Oxford Reading and is a comfortable level 5. Gets between 0 and 3 in spelling test. I've not been told by the school but she goes down to year 1 for maths, has extra phonics.

The tutor I saw recommend testing for auditory processing and dyslexia. She said was /saw getting mixed up and some other signs.

The doctor said '' I don't know how to request that ask the school '' today we met with the teacher who said..

We don't test for dyslexia here.

I asked about triggering educational psychologist, and teacher said dd isn't bad enough. She said... If she was reception level but she's breaking through year 1.

So what is behind in law terms to trigger Ep who then triggers... Ap tests and dyslexia tests. Thank you

Where does your budget go?

TA wages, mainly.

A school can usually purchase Ed psych time.

Simply untrue.

We can only use the LA Ed Psych, we get a time allocation (so we buy into a service ). They can see maybe 6-10 a year. We have many times that number of children waiting. We need to prioritise.

In other LAs you can buy a private Ed Psych to support EHCP but that is not the norm nationally.

So would it be better for me to save time and money on private tests and pay this special dyslexia tutor instead?

Then see where we are in a year.

Back for good, I feel a sick knot feeling about it all, my dd has been put on the register from today only but she's been struggling for 2 maybe 3 years.

Why is me asking for a meeting triggering this. Surely the school can see she's struggling and tell me what they are doing, what they see etc rather than the other way round.

One hour with a tutor and all these issues have been flagged up..

Not the school flagging them up to me. The system seems tipsy turvy to me.

And my county has 3 Ed Psychs, for the whole county ( which is a large one!) Here Ed psychs only do a statutory report as part of the EHCP process, once the EHCP application has passed the first "cull". We have specialist teachers who are qualified to conduct a range of tests, including dyslexia screening, who we can "buy in" to undertake some assessments.

I would concentrate on what you can do to support your dd at home and ask teachers advice. My youngest child is struggling to learn and I have met with his teacher several times to discuss strategies that I can use to progress his learning at home.

His teacher has moved him onto another reading scheme which suits him better and we have all agreed that we won't worry about spelling until he becomes more confident with reading.

In your position I would pay for a private ep assessment if you can afford it as schools are not in a position financially to pay for them.

@strawberrytea123
as an Ed Psych, do some of your members work part-time for the LA (or NHS?) and part time in private practice, so that any diagnoses they give aren't challenged in the EHCP process.

I'm a bit concerned about AzerByeBye's comment that a child will only be diagnosed with dyslexia if a parent pays for it, I'm used to hearing that sort of 'You paid for that dx so it's not worth the paper it's written on' comments touted about ASD dx, that's why it's advisable to have a dx from professionals who work part time for the NHS as well as part time in their private practice, but I'd not heard it levelled at private Ed Psychs before.

Also so much of this thread is about what schools should do without a dx, i.e provide for kids on needs based assessments, but in reality, so many just don't and parents have to search for a place in a school that does.

but I'd not heard it levelled at private Ed Psychs before.

I haven’t either. As far as schools and the LEA here are concerned, an EP report is equally valid whether it’s private or LA. All of the private EPs either do both sectors or used to be one of our LA EPs. I’ve never had a Needs Assessment request turned down for having a private EP report.

One hour with a tutor and all these issues have been flagged up.

So would it be better for me to save time and money on private tests and pay this special dyslexia tutor instead?

Hmm, no, I don’t think so. If you’re going to pay for something, I’d pay for an EP assessment. I’d be wondering who the dyslexia tutor was and what their qualifications were. Are they suggesting that you need lots and lots of hours of tutoring done by them?

there is NO strategy or provision that you'd give to a dyslexic child that you wouldn't also give to a child without a diagnosis. ... You may find private EPs willing to give a diagnosis but that's because, of course, these diagnoses pay for their mortgage. But there is nothing that they could suggest that wouldn't also work for general 'poor readers'.

Not really true. There are numerous techniques which specifically help people with dyslexia: if you went into a specialist dyslexia school, for instance, you would find techniques being used very successfully that are not generally available in the mainstream.

There is certainly quite a lot of help recommended for dyslexic pupils which would also help others, but the reality is that they simply aren't readily available in the average mainstream classroom - for example, lots of overlearning, multi-sensory teaching, very structured teaching, the use of different coloured lines on whiteboards to enable children to keep track of where they are, availability of laptops, specific techniques to counter typically dyslexic difficulties. The Dyslexia Association tried to encourage this when it issued guidelines on the Dyslexia-Friendly Classroom, but parents all over the country would attest to the fact that those guidelines simply aren't followed in many, many classrooms. Therefore it is certainly useful for children to be properly assessed so that, if they are dyslexic, the right strategies and help can be put in place.

There are some highly reputable and effective specialist tutors around, OP, and that might well be the way to go at this stage. Contact your local branch of the Dyslexia Association - they may well have details of tried and tested tutors.

We went down that route with DS1. The school was quite motivated to help but simply didn't have the resources, and admitted that putting him into the SEN group was if anything holding him back. The private dyslexia tutor took his writing apart and put it back together so that now his writing is better than his siblings', and this helped him to get the "feel" of the right way to write and the way certain letter combinations go together. She did lots of work with cards showing what sounds letters and letter blends made, and various other techniques including using the WorkShark and NumberShark programmes which he enjoyed. More than anything, she restored his confidence in himself, as he had been saying he was "thick" because he couldn't read and write in the way his contemporaries could, and he began to realise that he definitely wasn't.

(You're saying that if a child has a diagnosis of dyslexia then mainstream schools can't help them and they need to go to a specialist dyslexic school?)

Whether or not a mainstream school has the resources, time, energy to put strategies into place or not, there is nothing an EP or Specialist Teacher could or would recommend for a dyslexic child over and above that which they would recommend for a child presenting with the exact same difficulties but who does not have a diagnosis of dyslexia.

I would correct your final sentence to: "Therefore it is certainly useful for children to be properly assessed so that, if they have any additional needs identified, the right strategies and help can be put in place."

Bevern that's really encouraging thank you..this lady is level 5 trained in dyslexia program.

My dd has not picked up the basics so she needs taking back to the beginning.

Beveren I'm also worried this will impact her confidence she's already noticing other dc are on much higher book bands.

@BlankTimes yes my colleagues work all over, some within LA; some independently and some for Camhs etc

There is no "one" dyslexia test and the British psychological definition refers to poor literacy skills despite intervention (as I could carry out some literacy assessments on a child who has never seen a book and has poor language skills and it's likely they would not do well). Specialist teachers have (some of them) additional qualifications in assessment and can support parents to explore dyslexia and some do diagnose - so if they have appropriate qualifications and will explore all avenues rather than just w reading test etc this might be useful

If we work with a school we think about what they need. For example- are they looking for exam dispensation, do the school need training etc. If a child is diagnosed and school does nothing different then the diagnosis hasn't helped

Sometimes private EP reports are looked at more cautiously because in these cases often the parent is paying customer. However I haven't ever read one that I felt was not accurate and reflective so it may just be a hangover from when there were less privates

Sorry for my typos, my space button is being a bit odd! And words keep auto correcting

@isspacethefinalfrontier it is becoming increasingly common for schools to have to buy traded EP time unfortunately

(You're saying that if a child has a diagnosis of dyslexia then mainstream schools can't help them and they need to go to a specialist dyslexic school?)

If that's directed at me, no. I'm saying there are techniques that are helpful to dyslexic children that can't normally be accessed in mainstream schools. However, they can with an EHCP which is properly specified and detailed with the right support.

there is nothing an EP or Specialist Teacher could or would recommend for a dyslexic child over and above that which they would recommend for a child presenting with the exact same difficulties but who does not have a diagnosis of dyslexia.

Again, that is questionable in relation to very dyslexic children who really do make progress when they get very specialist help. But even for those in the mainstream, they don't get it unless it is properly assessed and unless it is specified by professionals; and when the support required is over and above normal mainstream resources, they won't get it all without an EHCP.

The perception that private EPs only recommend support because they are paid is a very outdated one. They are members of the Health Professions Council and subject to rigid professional standards, and have to justify what they advise. Contrary to popular myth amongst some teachers, parents want to hear what their child's difficulties actually are, they don't want to pay for what a professional thinks they might want to hear. Good EPs have people queuing up to use them, so it's not as if they have to lie to keep one particular parent happy.

A private EP who simply reports what they are paid to say wouldn't be very successful. The SEN world is a relatively small one, particularly since the advent of social media, and word gets round quickly about experts who get torn apart in tribunals because they can't justify what they recommend in their reports.

My son's school agreed there was a problem, said they would try to get him assessed but never actually did. In the end we had to pay for the assessment ourselves. This is common in our area, almost no schools have money for the Ed psych and in our case school kept telling us there were children with more severe SEND who got the money spent on them but as my son is bright and not causing them too many problems they wouldn't help him reach his potential. I'm really angry about the whole thing.

I don't think for a second that private EPs only report what they are paid to say, and that's not what I said.

We also pay for extra specialist teaching outside school. Getting an EHCP for dyslexia seems almost impossible here, but an assessment report will recommend things that can be done in mainstream to help them. It also can recommend extra time in exams. For us, giving him a reason why he found some things hard that his peers do effortlessly has been good for his self-esteem which was the thing that was taking a battering before the assessment. As far as I can see, school is not set up for dyslexics and my key aim is to help him keep his confidence through it all. He is a creative, original thinker with loads of talent, so we need to preserve that. Getting diagnosed has helped us enormously.

With two giant boys, thank you.

Picking up the self esteem and confidence is the hardest part and the stuff that can really affect dc longer term.

My dd doesn't seem any less bright than her peers but something is going amiss between learning and getting it on paper!!

It may not be dyslexia it may be auditory processing or something else. This is my issue who tells us what's going wrong.

With two this is what I'm trying to find out.. Regardless of budgets, what's the actual law on this.

Don't college's get funding for dc to have support?

Once dyslexia etc is confirmed then we get the echp.

Dyslexia alone is unlikely to qualify a pupil for an EHCP

What about auditory processing

Auditory processing can only be diagnosed by specially trained audiologists- there are very few places that diagnose..GOSH does but only if you live within the M25

This thread has been an eye opener for me as we have had an Ed psych see both DS in nursery twice - once by request, once for EHCP assessment. I had no idea it was so hard to get. I guess if your child is in a mainstream school it could be harder?

FWIW OP, I found the Ed psych meeting and report very useful at identifying needs and setting targets. If your school is very resistant IMO this could be a good first step to pay for.

The law says that the LA must assess each child on a case by case basis. Any blanket policies like ' won't assess unless 8 years on p scales' are illegal.

OP I would be wary of this ‘level 5’ tutor, she has put some more unrealistic ideas in your head about the level of support available for a child who is 1 yr below targets, and what’s more any specialist teachers/educational professionals who I have come across (as a parent of child with ASD, as an exams officer, and as a SEN governor) are level 7.

Meet with school and go from there.

So in my case the teacher couldn't give me any nuts and bolts of what my dc is doing..
The tutor I had, gave me very specific instances of what's going wrong.
The alphabet. The sounds mixed up, the reversals.

The school since nursery has not raised this with me.
So at what level of struggle does my dd get too, before school will trigger help or assment.

Eg teacher said about my dd... '' if she's plodding through sounding out all the words, maybe read the book to her first so she gets an understanding of it ''

Well my dd, and I've said this in person and write in reading record is very comfortable stage 5.

She doesn't sound out any words bar maybe 1 a page or 1 every two pages? She's reading smoothly.

She's secure stage 5.
I would be asking for stage 6 but I'm not sure if that's a good idea when she's behind in phonics?
Or does she need more challenging books?

But the teacher didn't seem to know. So who is she to say my dd doesn't or does need help. I've had more insight, support, and verbal and indeed emotional help from a tutor whom I might add could only fit us in for a couple of sessions!!

Unfortunately we can't see her again but she's put us in touch with other teachers.