To support the Duke of York

[LadyLanka]

Just that.
Although he is being asked the wrong questions.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude

I agree that PA has no good explanation for his stay in JE’s house. But are there explanations that don’t make PA a criminal? Yes.

No Bertrand I haven't really. Somewhat glad in that case.

In what way is it impossible for a man with practically unlimited money and a large staff to put away compromising objects in his home? Are you suggesting he wouldn’t have people to do it? Anywhere to store it? Ample notice that PA was going to be his guest? I don’t understand what you believe to be insurmountable here.

Church I'm going to assume someone has taken over your account, because you were making valid and rational points earlier and now are in deep conspiracy territory.

You honestly think a Billionaire would clear out his entire mansion for one guest? For real?

Hearing what was in his house would mean a complete redecoration I imagine. And of course PA would deny. Just like he denied the young girl in the video he let out the door.

Did JE get a valet to put his conviction away in a cupboard when PA visited. Is that why PA felt it was ok to stay at his house

Good point! There is NO excuse for him being there. None. In the interview he was bordering on saying he wasn't a friend, he didn't see him much, blah blah
And yet the 'honourable' thing to do was to tell him face to face that he couldn't be fwends any more.... spend 4 days with him in his home, and no it wasn't a party celebrating him coming out of prison. It was a dinner party. Big difference

Support him as a serial sexual abuser?

Here have this

Did JE get a valet to put his conviction away in a cupboard when PA visited. Is that why PA felt it was ok to stay at his house

Jeeves, we have an honourable man visiting and he wouldn't approve of this sort of decor. Please help me to recreate myself as something other than a sex offender.

Church I'm going to assume someone has taken over your account, because you were making valid and rational points earlier and now are in deep conspiracy territory.

Same human, same faculties of reason.

You honestly think a Billionaire would clear out his entire mansion for one guest? For real?

Well, no, I don’t. I doubt he moved the sofas and carpets. But the paintings and statues are movable items, and for a guest of Prince Andrew’s status, I simply don’t see what makes it impossible.

Why are you banging on about paintings and whether it’s possible to move them, when there are photos of Andrew and Epstein surrounded by half a dozen topless girls? You think Epstein would remove a topless painting but not actual topless women? You think a prosecutor would ever seriously ask “did you ever see paintings??”

Yes, I do think a prosecutor would ask that. And a defence barrister.

Also, topless women aren’t Epstein breaking the law. I am sure many people with lots of money sunbathe on yachts wearing not very much at all. Even if PA thought Epstein had a willing coterie of attractive women hanging around on yachts with him wearing only their pants, that’s not illegal. It’s sleazy, but it’s not illegal.

Tiddler to be fair to churchandstate I was the one who brought up how his NY house was decorated. To illustrate the point that PA just knew what a sleaze Epstein was. But still carried on with the friendship.

There was an article at the time that told how strongly PA was advised NOT to go to Epstein's house after the conviction. And he said 'I'll be friends with who I want, I am loyal etc' I can't find the article because google is swamped with the recent stuff but the entitled Prince does what he wants, and only now shows some regret for strolling round Central Park with him. Because he's been criticised so much and because Epstein's crimes are so revolting. Damage limitation gone wrong.

I don't know, maybe Epstein's alter ego was Bruce Wayne and he had an actual superhero den, and the girls were sidekicks and the walls of his mansion reverse themselves to display a different facade whenever the Prince arrived.

or was Epstein his alter ego?

There are plenty of articles out there detailing the decoration of Epstein's NY house. Not a few nude paintings. Thousands. Along with all the other kinky stuff.
But hey ho, he took it all down when the Prince arrived yeah yeah

There was an article at the time that told how strongly PA was advised NOT to go to Epstein's house after the conviction. And he said 'I'll be friends with who I want, I am loyal etc' I can't find the article because google is swamped with the recent stuff but the entitled Prince does what he wants, and only now shows some regret for strolling round Central Park with him. Because he's been criticised so much and because Epstein's crimes are so revolting. Damage limitation gone wrong.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/19/duke-york-dismissed-pleas-drop-jeffrey-epstein-saying-loyal/

Thank you Entropy

PA did exactly what he wanted to do, as the article shows.

What I don't understand is....
At the end of the Newsnight interview, he was asked if he regretted the friendship. He might (only 'might') have rescued the situation somewhat if he had said 'yes'. But even then he talked of the contacts and learning from Epstein and how he didn't regret the friendship.
Being a member of the RF, he would have had all the channels in the world open to him, but needed Epstein's friendship to open doors?!

The Queen should pass the throne to Charles so he can sort house. And soon. Clearly as she has become old and her authority diminishes, and old guard competent staff retire, some of the less important Royals are acting like loose cannons with some taking the piss and bringing the whole institution into disrepute.

I mean Andrew should have been brought to task much earlier. Decades ago.

Annus horribilis 2.0

There is. But a) he disputes the veracity of it and b) a photo of him with his arm round her proves they met, it doesn’t prove anything else.

But you were saying she might not have known who he was if she’d never met him or met him in dark rooms when confused. So the photo demonstrates that she had met him in a brightly lit room at a time when she appears to be quite compos mentis.

Of course he’s disputing the validity of the photo, because it’s a smoking gun. He said he’d never met her but look! The FBI have that photo; I imagine given the people involved they had a little look at it to check how real it was. How surprising that the investigations into it have apparently been ‘inconclusive’. Crying ‘fake photo’ doesn’t make it so

I agree Tiddler - this does feel like a watershed moment. I've always thought on balance the Royal Family was a good thing and really respect the Queen. However, this has tipped me over the line and I'm now anti-monarchy.

There must have been loads of people like me who were vaguely conscious of the PA/Epstein rumours but never paid a great deal of attention. But now we've had it all laid out for us! Until this weekend, my 23 year old ds didn't really know who PA is. But he picked up on all the stuff on twitter etc and got me to watch the whole interview with him.

"It can't have been me, I was at Pizza Express in Woking" is rapidly becoming the family catch phrase and I'm sure will live on in the public consciousness for decades.

Not sure why you think paintings are such a red flag Epstein would bother to remove them, when he was clearly happy for Andrew to see the coterie of naked girls he kept on his property.

I don’t. I haven’t seen them. I do think it’s possible that he would remove them if they were incriminating, and if they weren’t, well, in that case I don’t think they can be cited as proof that Prince Andrew knew Epstein was a paeodophile.

Anyway, I think I will step back from this argument. Some people seem to be so upset by the situation that they have taken leave of the ability to have a logical conversation about it.

Catherine I totally agree. In Spain, King Juan Carlos abidcated at an old age, in favour of his son Felipe who took over as King with his wife Queen Letizia. They are popular in Spain and have moved their monarchy forward.

I honestly think the Queen should move over in favour of Charles.

I think that's you churchandstate to be honest. Such justification of this revolting friendship.