To support the Duke of York

[LadyLanka]

Just that.
Although he is being asked the wrong questions.

"It can't have been me, I was at Pizza Express in Woking" is rapidly becoming the family catch phrase and I'm sure will live on in the public consciousness for decades".

I think Pizza Express have removed the fake reviews![Smile]

In any of these exploitation/abuse of girls/women cases there are so many involved, availing themselves of the exploitation/abuse, or being fully aware of it happening in plain sight.

In this case there were many aware who werw at parties on his island, full of girls. It was known that a 17 year old was too on the old side for JE.

There are many with blood on their hands.

PA has conducted himself so poorly and arrogantly as to implicate himself. His only defence now seems to be he's fucking clueless. Fortunately ignorance is not a defence.

There are pictures of PA with groups of topless girls? Where?

Trump is ball deep in this too. I hope he has this in his diary [after impeachment]

I've always disliked Prince Charles but in relation to his odious brother he seems like a very respectable sort.

I think the lot of them are well past their sell by date though.

Is there any real reason why PA can't be extradited to the US to answer questions? Does he have immunity because of his status? Or is it just that nobody's brave enough to do it?

Roussette

I haven’t justified anything, and nothing I have said is illogical. It’s just not fitting into the consensus here that it’s only okay to believe PA is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. And unfortunately for me, because I think he is a creep and I would like to believe it, I see doubt.

Shame if he got booed on Christmas Day doing the walk of shame

It would be an even greter shame if it happened at Beatrice's wedding - not for his sake but the bride's

And Windsor or London are a darned sight more accessible than Sandringham ...

greater, not greter!!

Hmmm. ‘I’m not going to carry on arguing because you’re all getting emotional’. A classic.

I haven’t justified anything, and nothing I have said is illogical. It’s just not fitting into the consensus here that it’s only okay to believe PA is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. And unfortunately for me, because I think he is a creep and I would like to believe it, I see doubt.

I think we can all see the wisdom in hypothesising about what Prince Andrew's supporters might have to say about this, but you make about as much sense as the last person at the party who's spent the evening in the loo doing a bunch of coke.

Well, unfortunately, yes, that’s how I see it. Reason has given way to anger here. And I think that’s natural, under the circumstances, but it doesn’t make it correct. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Fair enough churchandstate

The only thing at the moment I can say PA is guilty of is entitled boorish behaviour and him trying to justify it. He's abhorrent.

However... the lawyer to the victims this morning said the interview has opened up the possibility of him being required to testify much more than it was.

If this doesn't happen, I cannot imagine for one moment he will ever be able to travel to the US again.

Hes now being called to testify. Good. So he should. Go, and do his bloody utmost for those poor girls, even if that impeaches him

Roussette

Absolutely. I for one hope that he faces some much more searching questions.

What I don't understand is....
At the end of the Newsnight interview, he was asked if he regretted the friendship. He might (only 'might') have rescued the situation somewhat if he had said 'yes'. But even then he talked of the contacts and learning from Epstein and how he didn't regret the friendship.
Being a member of the RF, he would have had all the channels in the world open to him, but needed Epstein's friendship to open doors?!

This is it. The clearest message from PA is that as a senior royal it is acceptable to socialise and be associated with immoral criminals as long as there are "serious beneficial outcomes". The only thing PA seems to genuinely regret is that he can't benefit from Epstein any longer and that he was seen to do the wrong thing rather than feeling remorseful and disgusted that he was friends with such a horrible git.

This is how he answered EM's question:
EM: You've talked about a thick skin, I wonder if you have any sense now of guilt, regret or shame about any of your behaviour and your friendship with Epstein?

PA: As far as Mr Epstein was concerned, it was the wrong decision to go and see him in 2010. As far as my association with him was concerned, it had some seriously beneficial outcomes in areas that have nothing and have nothing to do with what I would describe as what we're talking about today.

Basically he publicly states that as a member of the royal family it's ok to be wheeling and dealing with criminals for personal gain.

Nice.

I don't feel sorry for him in the slightest. He is in it up to his neck. Even if the acts that Virginia has accused him of are untrue, he still put himself into this situation by staying at the houses of a convicted sex offender. He is a Prince of the United Kingdom. He could have been accommodated at any hotel in the world, at the drop of a hat. Hotels of the highest standard, ensuring his safety and privacy. There was no reason for him to stay at the home of a man who had this "unbecoming" behaviour.

Virginia, as well as the other girls are someone's daughters, sisters, grandchildren. They were abused and trafficked. They need their justice and anyone who had connections with the deceased awful beast, regardless of status, title and wealth need to be formally questioned, or better still undertake a lie detector test.

Any innocent person would be forthcoming in assisting the authorities in their investigation in order to get the answers needed so the case can be given closure.

The interview was done in the hope it would be swept under the carpet before his daughters upcoming wedding.

Reason has given way to anger here

Says the poster who concocts fantasy scenarios and has a unicorn at the bottom of their garden to keep the fairies company.

Alsohuman

It doesn’t make your argument stronger to be rude, and it doesn’t affect the logic of what I have said in the slightest.

And rather unsurprisingly Boris Johnson has defended the Duke of York in light of his car crash interview praising prince Andrew for the " good he has done for UK business overseas".

Boris Johnson has defended the Duke of York in light of his car crash interview praising prince Andrew for the " good he has done for UK business overseas"

And thus we have illustrated just why it is that victims don't come forward.

To OP. No I wouldn't do that. Even if what he is saying is true, I very much doubt he had no idea about Epstein and Maxwell's character and what they got up to.

I don't think the queen is smart enough to make plans such as abdicating as suggested above to bring charles in to sort things out and streamline the monarchy, and that's not just because of her age. (Not that I think that would be a good move anyway.)

She's been praised over the years for being a great monarch but for what? She just hasn't had direct scandal for anything she's done, basically stayed quiet and done all the constitutional things expected of her. That doesn't mean she's 'great' or that no one else could have done as good a job. I think she's made up her mind not to abdicate and that's that. She's not such a sharp thinker and is pretty set in her ways.

Her judgement, and that of her kids and grandkids, has been terrible at times. The royal family PR is usually one step behind the curve, unless, in this latest case, some staff hate andrew so much they let, or even encouraged, him to do this interview so that he'd hang himself.

The queen doesn't seem to like change. She didn't like lowering the flag for Diana when she died as it wasn't done in those circumstances. It was only when forced due to public opinion and strong advice from staff that she did it. She also didn't like having to bend to the public's will that someone needs to say something about Diana's death, as far as I recall. I felt when this happened there was definitely an air of some crisis going on with the public and the royal family and it was a wake up call for the royal family that no, they could no longer do exactly what they pleased and the public would respect them regardless - and I don't think they liked it, including the queen.

She's as entitled as the rest of them and while I don't find her unlikeable (or particularly likeable either) what she stands for is and some things she does too - the medals, titles, houses etc awarded to her kids as if they're something special beyond the position they have beyond it being an accident of birth. When her mother was alive the press fed us the line about "the nation's granny" and wasn't she wonderful etc. No, she wasn't as far as I could see. We were brainwashed for years about this family and now the mood is changing and the royal family don't like it and are so arrogant they're dumbfounded that we don't want to doff our caps to them anymore.

I've watched half the interview and that was enough. This is a man who got swept along in bad company and was too much in his own bubble of self importance and privilege to see both how wrong it was and how stupid he was to get involved. Throughout the interview I got the impression that all of his concern is for his own reputation, but I doubt he has given a moment's thought to the girls involved and the distress they would have felt. I don't think he is capable of putting himself in their shoes, it's all about squirming out of the hole he has dug, concerned for himself only. I wonder how he would feel if some middle aged predatory male abused his own daughters that way.

I wonder how he would feel if some middle aged predatory male abused his own daughters that way.

He would be disgusted and outraged, I suspect, because he doesn’t see the abused women as having been abused. I would expect that, in his mind, the victims are ‘that sort of woman’ who has sex first and then makes accusations later. He wouldn’t see that their surface willingness might have been coerced, or that even a ‘true’ willingness still amounts to exploitation. Even if he knew they were (some of them) 17, he would see that as being above the age of consent in the UK and I imagine he would see himself as only subject to UK law.

I think to some extent these attitudes would explain his decision to stay with Epstein. He probably didn’t believe the facts behind the conviction in the same sense that we do.

And rather unsurprisingly Boris Johnson has defended the Duke of York in light of his car crash interview praising prince Andrew for the " good he has done for UK business overseas".

Well, I can't say I'm remotely surprised that Boris would come out with something so crass. Posh toff with zero human empathy completely overlooking a person's immoral behaviour because they might be financially lucrative - how repulsive. A slimy politician through and through.