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Original poster

To support the Duke of York

999 replies

LadyLanka · 16/11/2019 21:42

Just that.
Although he is being asked the wrong questions.

OP posts:
flowerpowerr · 18/11/2019 08:34

And I’m surprised we haven’t heard from any of the staff or other guests at the Pizza Express party.

The thing is, Pizza Express is totally irrelevant to all this. He could easily have gone to the party there and then met Epstein/Maxwell later that night.

churchandstate · 18/11/2019 08:37

You have to admit it's a crazy theory that VR might've been sleeping with a prince andrew look alike ... surely? Even as a theory to say we don't know what happened, that is pushing the boat out a bit

Yes, it is. Deliberately so. What is unlikely isn’t impossible. Although it remains unlikely.

That description of Epstein's house was from me upthread... of course PA knew, at least, that Epstein was a sexual pervert. That is a description of just some of his NY house. If I went to visit a friend and saw that sort of thing, I would be seriously questioning my judgement of this friend.
But not Prince Andrew. Because he does what he wants. I am glad the interview was a shit show.
Everything about it was awful. Pretending he was shot at in Afghanistant... what an insult to the armed forces. He was miles away from any action. The sweating crap, give us a break!

And again, it is not impossible that, knowing Prince Andrew was coming, Epstein had his army of staff remove the whips and chains, and told the women in his employ to act like personal assistants, masseuses, etc. I believe it would still be very difficult for Prince Andrew - or anyone / not to see that something very dodgy was going on, but it’s possible that the environment was just tame enough to create what Andrew considered to be plausible deniability.

We don’t know. The likely conclusion isn’t necessarily the true one.

Doubleraspberry · 18/11/2019 08:37

I assume Pizza Express did happen. There will be records of things like that and someone has looked that up. It is too easy to disprove to offer up in the way he has. But it absolutely doesn’t stop him being in a central London nightclub later that day.

LaurieMarlow · 18/11/2019 08:39

I have no idea why church is speculating on a random and unlikely scenario. It seems to serve no purpose but deflect from the very real issues at hand.

TiddlerontheRoof · 18/11/2019 08:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CiliatedEpithilium · 18/11/2019 08:42

Has anyone heard of or had experience of a condition where a dose of adrenalin causes you to be incapable of sweating? I am struggling to imagine this. It would be life threatening surely and it would be a condition that would have become a household name since the time of the Boer war surely? What measures can he possibly have put in place or have been put in place by his medics to remedy this condition in time for the interview that might, y'know, make him.....sweat.

His body language alone. I watched it first without sound. I think he may have taken betablockers to maintain the even tone.

He comes off as being astonishingly arrogant. EM's face was a picture when he minimised the sex offending down to conduct unbecoming.

WineOrGinOrBoth · 18/11/2019 08:44

I think EM did a brilliant job. Her incredulity was unmistakable.

churchandstate · 18/11/2019 08:45

TiddlerontheRoof

No, it wasn’t aliens. But it’s not illegal to spend time with topless women, or even immoral. I am disinclined myself to believe him, but as I have said several times, my theories aren’t facts. Other things are possible.

CiliatedEpithilium · 18/11/2019 08:45

The fact that he continued to consort with JE AFTER he was convicted could be seen as proving the rest of it to be true on the balance of probabilities.

churchandstate · 18/11/2019 08:46

LaurieMarlow

I am merely making the point that we don’t have all the facts. The most I feel able to say is that he seemed like he was lying to me, and some of his claims seems spurious. Other than that, I can’t treat Virginia Roberts’ claims as fact because they’re not.

churchandstate · 18/11/2019 08:46

CiliatedEpithilium

The balance of probabilities isn’t proof. It’s supposition.

dogsdinnerlady · 18/11/2019 08:47

I like the aliens theory. Odd coincidence that the weekend Woking becomes centre of paedo scandal, BBC airs first episode of War of the Worlds. Set guess where? Woking!! All the clues are there. Anyone read David Icke and his royals/aliens nonsense?

churchandstate · 18/11/2019 08:47

Has anyone heard of or had experience of a condition where a dose of adrenalin causes you to be incapable of sweating? I am struggling to imagine this. It would be life threatening surely and it would be a condition that would have become a household name since the time of the Boer war surely? What measures can he possibly have put in place or have been put in place by his medics to remedy this condition in time for the interview that might, y'know, make him.....sweat.

No. But Prince Andrew might well surround himself with medical quacks who tell him what he wants to hear.

LaurieMarlow · 18/11/2019 08:49

Other than that, I can’t treat Virginia Roberts’ claims as fact because they’re not.

They haven’t been proven in a court of law, but they have been claimed as fact by her, so are worth investigating. Unfortunately we won’t get that chance.

Your own ridiculous story hasn’t been claimed as truth by anyone, so the only reason for keeping banging on about it as far as I can see is to deflect from the much more serious issues we should be engaging with.

churchandstate · 18/11/2019 08:51

They haven’t been proven in a court of law, but they have been claimed as fact by her, so are worth investigating. Unfortunately we won’t get that chance.

I couldn’t agree more.

Your own ridiculous story hasn’t been claimed as truth by anyone, so the only reason for keeping banging on about it as far as I can see is to deflect from the much more serious issues we should be engaging with.

I’m not banging on about it. Confused

dogsdinnerlady · 18/11/2019 08:52

I like the aliens theory. Odd coincidence that the weekend Woking becomes centre of paedo scandal, BBC airs first episode of War of the Worlds. Set, guess where, Woking! All the clues are there. The Martians are responsible. Anyone remember David Icke and his royals/aliens nonsense?

LaurieMarlow · 18/11/2019 08:53

Anyone remember David Icke and his royals/aliens nonsense?

Wasn’t it lizards? Grin

LaurieMarlow · 18/11/2019 08:54

Lizards don’t sweat.

It’s all falling into place

CiliatedEpithilium · 18/11/2019 08:55

The interview is cut to ribbons. The clock in the background tells a story. It starts out at ten past twelve and minutes later it's ten past one and then ten past two. At one point it has gone backwards so it's worrying how much genuine content we are actually seeing here.

Doubleraspberry · 18/11/2019 08:56

There comes a point, quite quickly in this case, where finding plausible alternatives for a likely scenario gets complicated.

Epstein has told the girls he has in his house to act like personal assistants and masseurs. Except they’re topless, so immediately you have a man who makes his (legitimate, non-trafficked or exploited) employees work with their breasts out. Aaaaand we’re back in a weird situation. Straight away.

churchandstate · 18/11/2019 08:58

Epstein has told the girls he has in his house to act like personal assistants and masseurs. Except they’re topless, so immediately you have a man who makes his (legitimate, non-trafficked or exploited) employees work with their breasts out. Aaaaand we’re back in a weird situation. Straight away.

I don’t believe there is a reported situation where women were topless in front of Prince Andrew in any of Epstein’s houses.

I was responding to a poster who said Prince Andrew was surrounded by topless women on one of Epstein’s yachts? I don’t know whether that’s true or not but will go with ‘true’ for the purposes of this argument. How unusual is it for women to sunbathe topless on a yacht?

churchandstate · 18/11/2019 09:00

And I have now looked at those pictures and it isn’t clear to me who any of those women are: whether they are Prince Andrews’ acquaintances or Epstein’s, how old they might be, whether they are just on holiday like everyone else. I’ve sunbathed topless. That’s not evidence of criminality in my book.

Trentadoodoo · 18/11/2019 09:02

it likely raises the question of who else knew about this. Prince Andrew may be shouldering the scandal on his own, but it’s highly likely, if Epstein was a regular guest of the royal family, that others (both royal and associated with royalty) also spent time with him and availed themselves of his hospitality, including Prince Andrew’s close friends and family.

Interesting. It would be embarrassing if other senior royals were also closely associated with this. PC, PW and PH will have been at the princesses birthday parties and other events Epstein was invited to too, I wonder what they thought of him at the time.

If anything good were to come out of this sad and seedy story, it's that the public will hopefully demand a thorough rehaul of the royal institution. They need to modernise, slim down and be much more transparent and ethical in how their affairs are run. Total modernisation is needed.

StartupRepair · 18/11/2019 09:03

What do the French have on him? Thought it all happened in UK and US?
His low opinion of the viewer's intelligence is quite insulting, isn't it. He can just make up a medical condition and we will all believe him.
I hope when Charles is king he strips him of every benefit.

Doubleraspberry · 18/11/2019 09:04

Have you heard about Yacht girls?