To ask about Jeremy Corbyn and anti semitism

[TheoriginalLEM]

So having decided to vote labour I had a conversation with a Jewish work colleague who said she couldn't vote for him, hated him even. It took me a few seconds and then i realised why. I said that I had stuck my fingers in my ears and my head in the sand somewhat about this, hoping it was just the media etc.

We didn't get into it as I could see she was uncomfortable.

So can someone tell me if and why he is an anti-semite? It doesn't sit well with me to vote for someone like that but I desperately want the Tories gone and my politics is definitely to the left.

I'm honestly not being goady and I know I could google but i wouldn't know where to start to get an unbiased view

" It’s interesting that there are a lot of Jews in the media,- particularly the bbc!"

Fucking hell.

Before I go, I think posts like that shouldn't be reported or deleted despite being offensive, as they show exactly what's going on here.

Completely agree @WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles

We need to expose the Corbyn cult exactly for what it is and they seem to be doing a great job of it on their own.

Before I go, I think posts like that shouldn't be reported or deleted despite being offensive, as they show exactly what's going on here.

Absolutely agree

Sounds like something Ken Livingstone would say

@Travelfan1 - "It’s interesting that there are a lot of Jews in the media,- particularly the bbc!" are you fucking kidding?!? What religious headcount have you been doing and across which organisations, please share your findings. No? Well, at least we all know very clearly where you stand.

@Solihooley "As far as I can see this is pretty much what the foreword said and pretty much what you’d expect a foreword of a ‘universally well regarded but controversial in part historical work’ to say."
Well, except that it doesn't. The foreword says it's a "great tome" and any criticism from Corbyn came only after he was asked to explain himself. It is an interesting book on imperialism, with information of its time inclusing many offensive stereotypes, and I suspect most reviewers would have called that out. Most likely he didn't read the book, or he would at least have called out the other racist language as problematic. I personally think he has a lot to answer for regarding the normalisation of anti-Semitism in his party, but in this specific case he's just proving PP's issue that he's dim.

@WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles - I agree.

It’s no way the 'main publication of the jewish

Yes it is. It is absolutely the main paper of the Jewish community. Everyone from the most secular to orthodox glances over it whether it’s online, delivered to their home on a Friday morning or taking a quick peek in WH Smith. Granted it is not the most exciting paper with more coverage of Auntie Bessie’s 104th birthday party at a care home in Golders Green but it is THE key influential publication in the community and speaks for the vast majority of Jews in Britain, when it speaks like it did last week, people listen

Long after he became leader of the opposition as well. Can you imagine why that mght be?

"It’s no way the 'main publication of the jewish community"

I suspect there is some jewsplaining going on here...

He is anti Zionist, not anti Semitic! It’s important to know there is a difference.

"He is anti Zionist, not anti Semitic! It’s important to know there is a difference."

Yes, thank you. We do understand there is a difference between being against the Jewish people having a homeland (aka zionist) and being antisemitic. Corbyn is both.

Funny, cos i suspect theres some trope spouting going on about those jews and their collective mind

Thing is with Corbyn and his past, he is one of 3 things a anti Semite, incompant as leader of his party for not tackling it or just completely clueless or it could be all three.

The thing is I don't want another 5 years of Tory's but for me at moment with the main parts of the front bench as it is, there is very few who are competent. Only stand out for me is Starmer.

It’s interesting that there are a lot of Jews in the media,- particularly the bbc!

Say what? And your point is...?

I think this, and a lot of this thread, demonstrates the need for a massive education drive on anti Semitism , how to recognise it, and how to combat it. As a Labour member and activist, I'm not going to leave the party or stop voting Labour over this- I'm going to stand and help fight and create a better, more aware party.

There are (finally) moves to take this seriously- here's a Labour publication from July: labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/No-Place-for-Antisemitism.pdf

So, I do believe that things are finally starting to improve. But yes, I do believe first person accounts of anti semitic bullying within the party, and all Labour members are doing the party a disservice if they don't take it seriously.

That said, please do realise that these people are a tiny minority. I've been a Labour member for 3 years, and I have encountered one anti semitic comment, on Facebook. And no, it wasn't picked up on by the admins until I reported it, when the poster was banned. So, yes, we need to try harder.

I have not read through the thread.

I think it is not contradictory to say there is a problem with anti semitism amongst some far left Labour members, partly due to their strong opposition against the Israel occupation of the West Bank which then wrongly develops into anti semitism including use of vile anti Semitic tropes, but equally there are forces on the right who have weaponised and magnified the problem for their own ends. For example my understanding is the UK Jewish community has been traditionally mainly Labour but the editor of the Jewish Chronicle is a known right wing supporter.

John McDonnell last year said there was a problem and they are introducing better procedures to throw out members who have clearly been anti semitic but the problem will not have completely gone away.

The definition of Zionism has different meanings too. For some Zionism means the belief that all the land of what is now known as Israel and the occupied territories should be a Jewish state. However, there are others who would describe themselves as zionists as they believe Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state and be a safe place for Jewish people after centuries of persecution but they would support a process that would eventually give Palestinians their own state, what is known as the 2 state solution. Others would interpret this as an anti Zionist position. Corbyn has said he supports a 2 state solution, and would say he is anti Zionist.

Corbyn has crossed the line at times with him referring to members of Palestinian terrorists organisations such as Hamas and Hezbollah who were at the same conference as him and whose violent manifesto is to drive all Jews from Israel as friends. He has apologised referring to them as friends and said he was trying to foster dialogue.

Regarding the mural he claims that he hadn’t looked at it closely at the time and can now see it did use anti semitic symbols and says it was wrong. It’s up to the indivdualc whether they think those apologies are genuine. It’s true he has supported Jewish causes too in his career.

I personally don’t think he is anti Semitic but I think his bid to speak out against the occupation has caused him to cross the line and wrongly tolerate anti semitism and even use anti Semitic tropes. . I hope the spotlight on the problems of anti semitism in a small but significant part of radical left Labour membership and him not getting to grips with it will mean he has had some personal reckoning. I think Labour are trying to tackle it finally but appreciate it may be too little and too late for some or not true.

I’m utterly appalled about what’s been going on in the Labour Party with regards to racism, and the treatment of Jewish people, and what’s worse is people are defending it!

I had a very traditional Labour voter upbringing but I will not be voting Labour with its current leadership because of the anti-semitism in the party.

This just popped up on my newsfeed. I haven't fact checked it, but I kind of feel I don't need to.

However, there are others who would describe themselves as zionists as they believe Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state and be a safe place for Jewish people after centuries of persecution but they would support a process that would eventually give Palestinians their own state, what is known as the 2 state solution

Zionism is very simple. It’s the belief in the Jewish right to self determination. I am a staunch Zionist, my belief grows stronger the more anti semitism rears it’s ugly head and it becomes clearer that there is no safe place for Jews apart from Israel. However, I also believe 100% in the description above and am vehemently against and critical of the recent Israeli governments and believe firmly in a 2 state solution and absolute equality for all Israeli citizens regardless of race or religion

The hard left have always had a problem with Antisemitism, Corbyn may not be hard left but those who pull his strings are (Milne and Mcdonnel) hence why he has been lax in addressing the situation.

His history of trying to form dialog that his supporters regularly try to invoke negates the fact he was a career back bench MP and trys to broad brush any 'believe the victim scenario' as somehow right wing or a with hunt.

I don't think he is anti semetic himself, but he is aware of it and turns a blind eye to it when it suits him. When you get the hard right such as Nick Griffin and the leader of Stormfront openly endorsing him then you have to accept it isn't just some right wing smear when the media highlights his history that he has to make an apology for.

@Travelfan1 What "close ties to Israel" of Luciana Berger's are you referring to? And what are you saying is wrong about that?

How's that evidence you have of "many Jews working for the BBC" coming along?

Boofay, that Corbyn opposed the South African regime in the 1980s is laudable, but completely irrelevant to the present situation. It's quite possible to be against racism and still have plenty of unconscious biases.

There are also antisemitic themes aimed at BAME people and those concerned about racism. I've seen memes highlighting slavery and colonialism combined with the suggestion that the Holocaust wasn't that bad.

@Travelfan1 - "weaponising anti semitism"?!? Luciana Berger has had people threatening her; the courts have assessed the evidence and found that to be true. Far right and at least one Corbyn fan, but all anti-Semitic. "Shameful" applies to your words here. What is wrong with you?

Are you Ken

Still bitter that a Jewish women who is much smarter than you let you dig your own grave on her own BBC radio show

This is the painting he defended.
When he replied "I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic."[6]

To my mind you don’t need to look closely at that painting to see clear anti Semitic intent so either Corbyn is making excuses when challenged and is indeed anti Semitic to some level or just down right stupid that he cant see what the rest of the world can see at a glance. In either case he is unfit to be prime minister.