To think continuing with a pregnancy is just as valid a choice as ending it?

[JingleAtSoftPlay]

Even if, on paper, having an abortion is the logical choice?

I have been on MN a long time. Recently-this last year or two, perhaps- I've noticed a bit of a change in how women who post about their unplanned pregnancies are advised.

When I was first on MN, it was very much a case of "your body, your choice, but the decision has to be yours". Now women are being advised - often in quite strident terms- that if the situation isn't ideal, not only should they terminate, but the implication is that they'd be selfish and cruel if they did not, what would they be thinking, having another baby.

I'm pro choice, I have campaigned for abortion rights, and I myself have had an unplanned pregnancy. This isn't about pro life/pro choice. However, one of the phrases I've often used towards pro life activists is "Pro choice doesn't equal pro abortion", and actually, I've read a few threads in recent months where I've felt some posters have in fact veered into pro abortion territory, they've been so intent on castigating the OP for her contraceptive failure and insisting that ending the pregnancy is the only fair and logical choice.

AIBU to think this is missing the point? It's almost as though it's somehow abnormal or silly for a woman to hold any sort of emotion towards her pregnancy, regardless of what her eventual decision is. A woman who, for example, is skint and who has not enough bedrooms per child in her house is just as entitled to continue a pregnancy as any other woman, even though on paper it isn't ideal. Because if she feels strongly that she can't terminate, that's up to her. She shouldn't be thought of as foolish or selfish for that, no more than a woman who chooses an abortion should be judged.

You can't take the emotions out of pregnancy, and nor should you, even if those emotions seem irrational to onlookers. I do wonder if this is a result of austerity and decisions such as the child tax credit limit- women's pregnancies and their children have been reduced down to a financial choice, and are treated with the accompanying hard headed, cold sense. All well and good when the matter is purely financial, but not something that should be applied to women's reproductive choices either way

But having a child is an economic decision. Emotions are not going to put food in that child’s stomach and a roof over its head.

I agree.

The one that makes me cross is when a woman is pregnant and the man wants her to have an abortion. There is always so helpful soul who says “if you want to carry on then you shouldn’t expect him to pay for the baby”. Errr no. This is Britain. In Britain women have the right to CHOOSE. They therefore have the right to choose to keep the baby. If a man therefore chooses to ejaculate inside a woman then he chooses to take the risk that this may lead to a pregnancy that the woman chooses to keep and, in that circumstance, he has to pay for the baby. If he doesn’t like that then he really doesn’t have to have sex. He knows the drill before he has sex. It most definitely is not “Her Body, My Choice”.

I haven't seen the scenario you've described. When the OP is on the fence and asking for help making a decision I have seen posters advising the OP to seek counselling to help them make a decision, I have also seen posters describing the pros and cons of keeping and continuing the pregnancy, and I have seen posters saying what they themselves would do where the OP has already decided but is looking for reassurance it is the right decision.

By and large, MN is pro-choice and this does include choosing to continue the pregnancy as well as ending it.

I agree and thought similar when reading some posts recently. For some women financial worries may be reason enough for them to end the pregnancy and for others this won't be a reason for them to do so. It maybe a worry for them but it would not be a deciding factor. In both instances they should have the right to choose and in neither should they be made to feel their decision is not the right one.

There is always so helpful soul who says “if you want to carry on then you shouldn’t expect him to pay for the baby”.

I agree this sort of poster usually pops up however, in my experience, they very swiftly get their arse handed to them.

There’s a difference between advising (or pressuring) the OP and just being open about what you would do in the same position.

There have been some threads I’ve lurked on where given the OP’s circumstances it would be a no-brainer for me- although made with a heavy heart.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with stating that on a thread where the OP is canvassing for opinions, as long as it’s done in good faith.

I think people should have children for a reason.not leave it to “ feelings”. Actually I think people should consider adoption for the child’s sake.

I haven’t ever seen that on here tbh

No, but the choice is rarely that cut and dried. People usually manage, circumstances can change for the better as well as for worse, and the majority of babies in the UK are born into families where they will be fed, loved, well cared for, and have a roof over their head.

Pro life activists tend to use exaggerated horror stories of abortions, combined with mawkish sentimental tales of babies who grew up to do great things after their mothers turned away at the abortion clinic gates. Their methods are overblown and factually inaccurate. On the other hand, I don't think catastrophising about financial ruin because a woman has found herself pregnant again and would quite like to continue with it, even though the timing isn't ideal, is any better. The reality is usually somewhere in the middle.

Yes, one recent lengthy thread in particular the OP, who clearly was struggling with the idea of terminating her pregnancy, was repeatedly insulted and called selfish. I thought it was awful.

I am pro choice, any time for any reason. But I also think life starts at conception.

I think alot of people that are pro choice have convinced themselves that life does not start at conception, that abortion isn't killing your baby. They have disassociated pregnancy from baby so much, that they feel that abortion is like a form of contraception. That it's no big deal. In my mind your baby is your baby, regardless of whether it's 8 weeks old or 8 months old. If you need to abort that's fine, but it's horrific to say someone should kill their baby because they are poor, or have multiple kids already, or don't know the dad.

YANBU

Less than what do you think to the morning after pill then or even the contraceptive pill
That could work by making the uterine wall slippy thereforepreventkng a fertilised egg from implanting

Same for the coil, it can prevent fertilised eggs from implanting.

YANBU OP. @adayatthebeach has just demonstrated your point.

I haven't seen those threads, although I don't doubt you. I agree that there should be no pressuring people either way. For me, pro choice means that. It doesn't matter what my opinion of your choice is, all that matters is that you get to make it. The thought of someone having a birth they didn't want or an abortion they didn't want is very sad. For me it's all about having control of our own bodies. Sure there are times I think abortion is the best choice, but that's my opinion and unless I am the pregnant one, it's irrelevant.

what do you think to the morning after pill then or even the contraceptive pill
That could work by making the uterine wall slippy thereforepreventkng a fertilised egg from implanting

It's my understanding that the pill stops you ovulating. I'm not judging anyone or saying people shouldn't use a coil or get abortions, but I wouldn't use either.

It also works by making the lining of the womb slippy

I agree. I've seen a few threads where a worried, indecisive woman is pretty much hounded by posters decrying her selfishness as she considers she might not feel able to abort and is swaying toward raising the child in less than ideal circumstances
I'm pro choice. As early as possible, as late as necessary ".
But I don't think its my place to tell another woman "your situation is a mess, you MUST have a termination".
It's definitely a trend I've noticed.
If you want an abortion, good, do that, right choice for you.
If you want to make a go of it, equally good, look for support to do so.
We should support each other as we go through the process of making very difficult choices.
Support, not badger.

@Lardlizard

The birth control pill works by stopping sperm from joining with an egg (which is called fertilization).

The hormones in the pill stop ovulation. No ovulation means there’s no egg hanging around for sperm to fertilize, so pregnancy can’t happen.

The pill’s hormones also thicken the mucus on the cervix. This thicker cervical mucus blocks sperm so it can’t swim to an egg — kind of like a sticky security guard.

I think alot of people that are pro choice have convinced themselves that life does not start at conception, that abortion isn't killing your baby
I haven't 'convinced' myself at all. Once conception occurs, you have an embryo which becomes a foetus. Scientifically, it remains a foetus until birth. It is only a 'baby' if you choose to assign that value to it. So no 'baby' is being 'killed'.

they feel that abortion is like a form of contraception
How, in the name of all that is holy, can an abortion prevent conception occuring? You can't have an abortion if you haven't conceived!

your baby is your baby, regardless of whether it's 8 weeks old or 8 months old
No. The foetus inside you is 'your baby' if that is what you want it to be. Plenty of women have regarded it simply as the foetus that it is.

it's horrific to say someone should kill their baby because they are poor, or have multiple kids already, or don't know the dad
Actually, it's describing abortion as 'kill your baby' that is horrific.

And for crying out loud, there is no such word as 'alot'. It's 'a lot'.

Your body, your life, your choice. What do opinions of random strangers really matter in a situation like that. I had one abortion very young. It was awful, I had my reasons but it was extremely hard for me

Not doubting that those threads exist, OP, just haven't seen them myself. I've always found the opposite, namely that there's a lot of guilt-tripping on MN aimed at getting women to continue with unwanted pregnancies.

E.g. I keep coming across posters asserting as some kind of unquestionable higher truth that you should never have a termination unless you're one hundred per cent sure about it, because it's a massive decision. (As opposed to having a baby, which is a trivial decision and nothing bad could possibly come of bringing a life into the world when you're somewhere between zero and one per cent in favour of raising a child). Or the equally baseless assertion which appears on almost any pregnancy choices threads that "lots of women regret their abortions but nobody ever regrets their baby once its born". Or the "I can tell you really want this baby and you'll regret it forever if you don't have it" comments on threads where the OP has expressed complete certainty about termination and just wants to know about logistics.

Look, every decision is different and personal and there are no right and wrong answers. It just infuriates me the way some Mumsnetters fall over themselves to cheerlead women into continuing pregnancies in the face of a clear message from the OP that, no, they're not in a position to have a baby. But when women come on here with existing children that were born in less than optimum circumstances with less than ideal men, it's all "why did you have a baby that you couldn't afford? Why did you have a baby with an obviously abuse man, OP? Why didn't you keep your legs together?"

Typos galore - sorry.

Bloodyinsomnia123

Well said.