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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

About homeless people?

363 replies

Catabogus · 11/11/2019 11:25

Am I being unreasonable (or more likely, dim) not to understand why there are now so many more homeless people on the streets than there were 10 years ago?

I’m partly talking about London - I have started going semi-regularly in the early morning for work, and I am shocked to see very how many people there are now obviously sleeping on the streets. It’s far, far more than 10 years ago.

But I’m also talking about the much smaller city where I live. There are now people almost ‘camping’ in doorways: they’ve set up sleeping bags and boxes and cardboard and are obviously there night after night, in the cold and rain.

There have always been one or two well-known “tramps” in my city, and one younger man who was suspected of actually having a nice home to go to at night despite making money from begging in the day, but these are now young and old, men and women, far more than I’ve ever seen before, and they are clearly living year round, day and night, in all weathers, on the streets.

AIBU to be shocked? Are we going backwards as a society? Is it the benefits system that is failing and causing this? Or other things I’m missing? I feel really depressed about it.

OP posts:
DarlingNikita · 13/11/2019 18:37

if you really think so, fair enough. I tend to think that drugs are unfortunately prevalent everywhere these days, pubs, parks, kids playgrounds, you name it. I'm tending to not think that's the result of any politics So why do you think they are so prevalent?

Suffice to say I know it to be true... you seem determined not to believe it. I’d be happy to believe you if you could back up what you say.

Straightintoit · 13/11/2019 18:40

Every time I come back to the UK I’m horrified by how many people are on the streets. The welfare system has been torn to shreds and the most vulnerable employed and vulnerably housed, and those with the most vulnerable home lives, have been the ones to fall out the bottom of the system. These people have nowhere else to go.

Our government should be ashamed of themselves.

HopingForSomeLuck · 13/11/2019 18:52

Conservative government ... Time for change

Austriana · 13/11/2019 18:54

I agree, I've seen a big increase in the last five years.

ruralliving19 · 13/11/2019 20:13

About 15 years ago now, a friend of my boyfriend at the time became homeless. He was schizophrenic and he stopped taking his medication. He turned up on our doorstep in a lucid moment. We had last seen him a few months before when he was taking his medication, working and living with his girlfriend. I don't know what order things started to unravel in but when he turned up on our doorstep, he had been homeless a month. He was drinking heavily and had visual and auditory hallucinations; he was paranoid. We did everything we could think of to help him. We offered for him to stay with us and he refused. He'd let us cook him a meal or use our shower but no more. We went to the council with him, they offered a hostel and he wouldn't engage. We took him to A&E and stayed with him while the psychiatrist assessed him; as soon as we left, he scarpered. He believed everyone except us was out to get him. He was homeless for at least a year, we checked on him regularly but then we moved away. I still don't know what happened to him but it just goes to show that it's very difficult to help some homeless people.

TabbyMumz · 13/11/2019 20:43

"I’d be happy to believe you if you could back up what you say."....back up with what?! Some sort of written evidence? Look, I've already said it matters to me not a jot if you believe me or not, so I'm hardly going to out my confidentiality or job on the line for you. Why is it so hard for you to believe it?

TabbyMumz · 13/11/2019 20:45

"So why do you think they are so prevalent?"
More availability, more supply and demand, people having more disposable income, county lines? More silly people likely to take them?

Leavesarefallingtotheground · 13/11/2019 21:14

10 years of Tory government.

It has increased exponentially here too.

Clavinova · 13/11/2019 21:15

Homelessness and Rough Sleeping Evidence Base Bristol City Council 2018

6.4 Identifying rough sleepers
"Historically, many people who slept rough in Bristol had a local connection to the city and were generally eligible for local supported housing services.This enabled considerable progress to be made in reducing the overall number of people sleeping rough. In recent years changes have occurred in the profile of rough sleepers in the city with an increasing proportion of people from eastern Europe, and other groups (in smaller numbers) with no course to public funds (NRPF). The overall size of the rough sleeper population in Bristol grew as a result of these clients being ineligible for housing assistance. At the same time there has also been an influx of economic migrants for whom rough sleeping can be a means of saving money, or because they have been unable to find work and have been forced to sleep rough."

As far as I can tell, only the Green Party are offering to extend benefits/assistance to NRPF migrants.

HelenaDove · 13/11/2019 22:22

Unfortunately im not surprised that someone with Tabbys attitude does the job she obviously does. Its not the first time ive noticed this either.

Madein1995 · 14/11/2019 01:22

tabby I'm very shocked that every homeless person in your area has been offered suitable accommodation. Because that's the key really isn't it? Many homeless people won't go into hostels where drug taking is rife. Because they're ex addicts and know if they lived there, they would use. For some people, like the chap 8 spoke to the other day, they'd rather sleep on a cardboard box than be in that unsafe environment.

What about pets? It's easy for people to scoff but it's true. I love my dog, I've had her since she was a pup. She's my angel. If I was all she had (and she's very clingy, follows you to the loo), there is no chance I would dump her in a shelter. That's cruel on the poor dog.

A rehab place can take a year to materialise. There's ridiculous waiting lists and most rehabs do a minimum of 3 months so hardly a quick turn over. Plus it's fucking terryfing! People have compared rehab as worse than prison. Told when to get up, when to shower, you have to talk to people and engage with groups, other people on at you all the time, zero sympathy when you're rattling, no TV or computers and not much books other than recovery... I am a nice person but I imagine I'd go fucking mad in rehab. The lack of any semblance of control mut8ve awful. It's not a nice comfy option.

What about if the place is too expensive, or too far away from anything? What if they can't take drugs or alcohol or have to obey bybscrict rules? I appreciate it must be frustrating, I do get that. But for many addicts, myself included, getting clean isn't that simple. Sober living houses are scarce, have ott rules (people chucked out for giving another a jokey goodnight kiss ffs), and the places that do allow active addicts aren't properly regulated. Rather than 2 extremes - hostels where drugs are rife and no one gives a fuck, or dry houses where too many unwashed mugs mean you're out... There should be proper support. Of course that costs money and of course no one will do that.

Then consider if you've been street homeless for years, how hard and scary it must be moving! I don't blame you for getting frustrated, but there's other reasons for it than 'they like sleeping on cardboard'

Aw for why do people use drugs or alcohol? Trauma. I've yet to meet a single addict who hasn't experienced trauma in some way. Family environment, peers, self medicating, a way to manage your emotions or be happy at a hard job, a way to feel OK when living with abusers, witnessing DV or loss or injury or.... The list goes on. Then societal views of addicts as being all hopeless and thieves and junkies. Then when you do try and get help, you wait weeks for a script then people tell you you're still a junkie just to something different. Or you wait for 12 months for a place in rehab, unable to progress. Or you can never get pain medication for your injury because you've an addiction past.

Funding is so bad. Services are cut to the bone and waiting lists are absolutely ridiculous. You try rattling and waiting a week for an appointment, and not use to relieve the physical agony. Then the pharmacies who quite frankly are shitty. My old pharmacy was lovely - 3 pharmacists, you went in and had a chat, they got your script ready, they were nice. Current pharmacy is a boots in town. I go there 3 x a week and yet no one remembers my fucking name. You're served behind a hatch to make it more fucking dehumanising. They won't make small talk with you but will happily finish their smiley conversation before talking to you. They'll take their sweet time, checking the same details 50 fucking times, then they'll moan if you take too long to dissolve the medication. That hatch is so dehumanising. Also I assume you need an address to receive a prescription?

So yes, the government are at least partly to blame for addiction rises. Not least for the lack of services actually available to help and support addicts.

I'm sorry but I find it hilarious that a worker in the field thinks disposable income has any link to addiction? Maybe at the beginning when it's a few lines on a weekend. But no hard blown addict is using because they have money. Most of us don't have the money! I did sex chat work, I escorted, I stole my baby jewellery, I got into loans for drug money. Having a disposable income had fuck all to do with it.

More 'silly people to take them'. Thanks. I'd always assumed it was only the homeless, jobless addicts with a problem too. Made worse by the fact that I took painkillers not gear. People who get addicted to drugs don't do so because they're 'silly'. They take them because of trauma, because of DV, because of death, to keep their mask on, to keep horrid emotions locked away, to keep past experiences firmly in a box under the stairs, to be happy and good at their job, because they're pressured into it... Thousands of reasons but silliness has f all to do with it. Possibly get yourself on a substance misuse course

Member869894 · 14/11/2019 07:23

The biggest cause of homelessness is private landlords terminating tenancies.

OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg · 14/11/2019 07:53

Brilliant post Madein1995. Good luck to you staying clean Flowers

Genevieva · 14/11/2019 08:01

As ever it is so easy to blame the brand of political party at the top, when the issues are very complex. I used to volunteer with CAB. There is a lot of support out there. It isn't ideal. There are too many people in temporary accommodation. But there are also people who refuse the help offered. The cases that made me angry were usually to do with housing associations behaving like rogue landlords.

BirdandSparrow · 14/11/2019 10:56

As ever it is so easy to blame the brand of political party at the top, when the issues are very complex. All those complex issues are magnified by austerity.

CloudPop · 14/11/2019 11:36

@purpleboy what a tragic, awful situation. So sorry

purpleboy · 14/11/2019 14:04

@CloudPop thank you for your thoughts Thanks. It's devastating to watch feeling completely useless. It's horrible watching the paranoia take over knowing he is living in that constant state of fear. Unfortunately we don't talk anymore, he is very verbally aggressive and when he did it in front of my children I had to put them first and stop seeing him. I just wish there was something we could do.Haloween Sad

easyandy101 · 14/11/2019 15:24

@TabbyMumz do you not see law and order as a political issue?

HelenaDove · 14/11/2019 15:54

The cases that made me angry were usually to do with housing associations behaving like rogue landlords

Yes!

BlingItOn · 14/11/2019 16:02

More mental health issues (most homeless have some sort of MH issue) and closing of homeless hostels and their services due to cuts.

TabbyMumz · 14/11/2019 17:52

"Because that's the key really isn't it? Many homeless people won't go into hostels where drug taking is rife. Because they're ex addicts and know if they lived there, they would use.".....no it's the opposite, they wont take up the accommodation because its drug free and they wont be allowed to take drugs there, so they wont go in.

Madein1995 · 14/11/2019 23:09

tabby I work in probation. I know full well that many hostels and approved premises are full of drugs and chaos. Its well known in probation, from staffs experience and service users. Who can't all be wrong. I've heard numerous people in NA discuss hostels where drugs were rife and where in the early days a mate would pick them up at 8 and return them at 11pm so as not to tempt a relapse.

I'm not saying that's true in all cases. There are dry houses that are properly maintained. There are also hostels rife with drugs and violence and chaos, which is something many would rather avoid. One person yes could be lying. 30plus? I doubt it somehow

Madein1995 · 14/11/2019 23:24

tabby fully understand them not wanting to go in if they can't take drugs, and how frustrating that is for staff. Our of interest, how long does it take to get on script in your area (usually need to give 3 urine samples, each 2 days apart?). How many days can the script go untakrn before they're thrown off? How quickly are appointments made? How quickly are doses monitored to ensure the dose is holding them? If they were to relapse, what would happen - support or removed?

I'm asking not to be an arsehole, but because these things have a massive impact on someone's ability to go to a dry house. If there's a script ready and it's upped regularly then fair enough. If the script takes ages to arrive and getting a higher dose is a battlefield then I probably wouldn't want to go in either.

Alsi, all that proves is that there needs to be more help and support available for addicts? As expecting someone to down the needle and go into a dry house isn't really realistic and probably is going to cause more issues for current residents.

I personally 5hink the waiting lists are criminal. I was lucky, I used up until I was on script and kept myself safe. Others aren't so lucky and commit crime for money to score, and I've heard of working girls in my old city waiting 3 weeks to get an appointment! 3 weeks. Asking a chaotic person to wait 3 days is bad enough really