About homeless people?

[Catabogus]

Am I being unreasonable (or more likely, dim) not to understand why there are now so many more homeless people on the streets than there were 10 years ago?

I’m partly talking about London - I have started going semi-regularly in the early morning for work, and I am shocked to see very how many people there are now obviously sleeping on the streets. It’s far, far more than 10 years ago.

But I’m also talking about the much smaller city where I live. There are now people almost ‘camping’ in doorways: they’ve set up sleeping bags and boxes and cardboard and are obviously there night after night, in the cold and rain.

There have always been one or two well-known “tramps” in my city, and one younger man who was suspected of actually having a nice home to go to at night despite making money from begging in the day, but these are now young and old, men and women, far more than I’ve ever seen before, and they are clearly living year round, day and night, in all weathers, on the streets.

AIBU to be shocked? Are we going backwards as a society? Is it the benefits system that is failing and causing this? Or other things I’m missing? I feel really depressed about it.

There was a documentary on earlier in the year about people in London who had full time jobs but were sleeping on the streets. One was a security guard in a posh clothes shop, I can’t remember what the others did. They earned min wage or just above but couldn’t ever save up a deposit or afford monthly rental payments.

Ah I’d thought one of them was a teacher, I doubted this could be possible but my memory was correct.

www.bigissue.com/latest/channel-4s-dispatches-uncovers-the-hidden-reality-of-the-working-homeless/

It was like this at the end of John Majors government. There were tent cities popping up and the streets were filthy as were the hospitals. So much had been cut that public services were threadbare (e.g. hospital waiting lists) and on their last legs.

Then New Labour got in and threw a lot of money at it but then we had the American originated Credit Crunch and Labour were thrown out and to this day the Tories like Javid blame Labour for overspending (even though they’ve not been in government for over m a decade) in order to justify underfunding public services again.

I was outside the National Gallery recently and the area was disgraceful. Not just full of homeless people but people with clear substance and mental health issues on mass. You have to run a gauntlet to get through them and their swearing. They shouldn’t be in that situation. It’s dangerous for them and passers by. God knows what tourists must think of the UK if Trafalgar Square’s like that.

Austerity.

Yeah we've realised this in our town, and I wouldn't say that there is a one answer fits all solution.
I wish it wasnt so, but people just fall through the cracks of many different systems.

Nothing has ever been so disheartening as seeing homes that a HA/ council, will not take possession of- usually because something trivial like not enough shelves in a cupboard, or not enough cupboard space, when over the road there are 20+ homeless living in tents in the park.

In fact what's more sickening is that in that same development roughly 40% of the new builds were bought by private investors who never intended to step foot in them or have them lived in.

I've also seen addiction services offer some of our local homeless help to get off drugs (this is obviously not all, but two of the worst in our town) both replied that the drugs they took were the only thing that helped with their MH issues and they couldn't trust that any medical professional would ever help them, both declined help and turned down the place offered to them both for treatment and somewhere to live of their own. Also worth noting that one of these men has walked at my car twice in 2 days, today he was on a roundabout, charging off of it and toward any car he could. When I called the police in hope they'd help him (my concern he was trying to kill himself) they told me not their problem, to call an ambulance, they told me to call the police. I called NHS 111, they also couldn't help. Sadly I think it just shows how people can fall because the system doesn't catch everyone.

Universal credit. I've been on it 3 months, not been paid correctly in that time due to their errors, they now owe me £4k and no idea if or when I will ever get the money. Im now all out of savings so we may well end up homeless if it's not sorted soon

Duvetday8 Go to the CAB/Welfare rights and ask for help about lodging a complaint with the DWP and getting your money.Also contact your M.P.I know they are not having surgeries at the moment but they can still email etc.

I think a lot of homeless people were hidden away in the past as they tended to live in squats (derelict or empty buildings) so they weren't necessarily sleeping on the streets.
Still homeless, still living in squalid conditions.
A lot of old derelict buildings have been regenerated or knocked down and for those that remain, security is a lot tighter nowadays . People have moved onto the street.
The population has grown massively too and MH problems, drugs, alcohol dependency is at an all time high.

both replied that the drugs they took were the only thing that helped with their MH issues and they couldn't trust that any medical professional would ever help them

I really wanted to highlight this point as I fully believe it. I went through a very traumatic experience 3 years ago and, following that, I wasn’t sleeping more than 2 hours a night. I begged the doctor for sleeping tablets just as a very short term thing. 2 weeks max just to try and get me back on track and they refused. I was close to suicidal and I got no help at all. I understand sleeping tablets are addictive, you can’t take them long term etc etc, and went to the doctors with all that in mind but they wouldn’t even consider it. I tried to get counselling. 12 months waiting list. Now I drink wine nearly every night instead, “self medicating” as they say.

I do understand that it’s not necessarily helpful for someone to be addicted to sleeping tablets or something like Valium for example. But if the alternative is that they’re using heroin or crack instead then I don’t see how that’s better?

@Meruem

Now I drink wine nearly every night instead, “self medicating” as they say

This is why early intervention/treatment is so important. Had you received help/therapy early on you likely wouldn't be drinking yourself to sleep. They would have given you some coping mechanisms or exercises to help you relax and put the things you are worried about into a context that you could find manageable.

Are you now receiving any help?

Ireland has a huge homeless problem too - and therefore definitely not due to Tory policies.

I think it's more simple.

Too many people
Driving up the rental market
Making it unaffordable for the poorest

So -
build thousands of homes
Councils reclaim "lost" properties
People offered 3 choices of Council accommodation (if none accepted then they're "out")
Move Council tenants where their need is exceeded by their accommodation (ie a couple whose children have flown the nest, still living in a 3 bed council house)

longtimelurkerhelen

No I gave up on trying to get help in the end which is why I can sympathise with people who turn to substances to help them cope. I don’t know what the answer is. I remember years back in a professional capacity, I worked with a guy, ex military and he had PTSD. He was an alcoholic and he did engage with alcohol services. Got off the drink. Looked like it was going well. But no one helped with his PTSD and he shot himself. It haunts me a bit tbh because we were all so focused on getting him off the alcohol, but no one considered how he’d cope without it. People abuse alcohol and drugs to escape something and unless you address what they’re escaping it can sometimes make things worse instead of better.

I will get there. I’m tired of always needing wine. I’m bloated and, while it does knock me out initially, my sleep is crap. I suspect I also have sleep apnea now which I know is exacerbated by alcohol. I often wake literally gasping for breath. I’m away soon and all over Christmas and New Year but I have resolved to go back to the GP in January and get some help.

Less mental health support
Less drug and alcohol support
Fewer jobs
Fewer stable jobs
More shite pay jobs
Fewer public services to help people who struggle
Most people are only one or two paydays away from being homeless
Less council housing
Poor access to services that are available as they suddenly expect people of poorer educational background to be able to use the facilities proficiently and for everyome to have access to the internet
Professional beggars

Oh, and a council house should not be for life. It should be based on requirements. A single man in his 60's does not need a three bed property. The single parent/widow/er whatever with three children does!

Oh, and a council house should not be for life. It should be based on requirements. A single man in his 60's does not need a three bed property. The single parent/widow/er whatever with three children does!

It isn't any more, not for new tenancies. And the bedroom tax means if you find yourself on benefits, you effectively lose your home in these situations too (unless you can find the extra cash).

One thing I will say about those in social housing who are working. Many of us are, despite the stereotypes! If you have any spare cash at all, try and over pay your rent account. Over time I did it so I am now 6 months ahead on my rent so that if I lost my job I would have a grace period to find another one. With all the issues with UC having a wait period of 5 weeks and then potentially sanctions for any little thing, it could mean the difference between keeping your home or not.

@OxfordCat As you can see there are many who like Jo Barrett of Thrive Homes believe housing estates should be more like hostels.

You often find its then the same people who complain that housing estates have become ghettos / no go areas etc completely unwilling to see that that is exactly what they are advocating and crying out for.

Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

@Meruem Which should work well IF the housing association are using a decent computer system.

Mine uses allpay which sends you email receipts so if there was any question over payments I have all the emails to prove what I’ve paid. i’ve set up a separate folder in my email box to keep them all. Although I do pay by card. Not sure what the system is if you use cash but shouldn’t you still get a receipt of some kind?

Found these interesting posts from an old thread. Posted by someone who said the same thing ive been saying for years. But her DH works/worked on HA homes.

LEMisafucker Thu 12-Dec-13 10:23:27

It is not ridiculous - my father worked all his life, my mother still lives in the 3 bed council house that they would have paid for ten times over in rent. It is not about moving pensioners out of their homes its about the money being paid in by people renting these properties being put back into the system and invested properly. Its about efficient repairs and moneies not being squandered going through middle man after middle man before the guy turns up on the doorstep to fix the boiler. My DP has worked on social housing contracts, subcontracting for a subcontractor whos is subcontracting for the main contractor who is farming all of this work out with god knows how many back hander with every little cog in the wheel syphoning off their money so where a job that DP would charge £150 for a days work (hes a carpenter) to a private homeowner, the same job is probably costing the council (the tax payer) £400 while everyone else creams their bit of money on top. He was astounded at the lack of organisation, waste of time, three people sent to do a job that could be done by one person etc. THAT is where the failings are, well, one of them, not allowing people who have paid into the system over the years to keep the homes they have paid for. Many pensioners CHOOSE to downsize, but even then suitable places are not available - you cannot put a pensioner for instance in a 1 bed flat on the fourth floor

same poster

There wouldn't be that problem of the maintainance costs if it wasn't such a lucrative business, contractors fall over themselves for SH contracts provide substantial "perks" its money for old rope. They pay underqualified workers a pittance of pay to get the work done quickly to a pretty poor standard and charge more than a premium job. So that argument for selling off the council properties falls a bit flat - there are people out there making substantial profits out of people falling on hard times

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/residents-near-tottenhams-new-stadium-18864998

Residents near Tottenham's new stadium fear they're being 'pushed out of area'

Plush new £1billion stadium couldn't be further away from Love Lane estate as tensions between club and locals grow.

Outside, you are standing on streets that are among the 5% most deprived in Britain.

The stadium redevelopment was an opportunity to lift the prospects of the people who live here.

But, instead, as the regeneration surrounding the stadium continues with a development known as High Road West, many families now fear they will simply be swept away.

A new walkway proposed to bring fans from a new station entrance at White Hart Lane station brings its own statistics. 297 social housing homes threatened with demolition in a borough with a severe housing shortage

Where 10,000 households are on the council’s waiting list and 3,000 families are stuck in temporary accommodation.

Meanwhile, 30 small manufacturing businesses on the Peacock estate, providing hundreds of decent local jobs, are facing eviction via a ­compulsory purchase order

The proposals will also mean the loss of a library.

YABU
Probably the strongest indicator for whether or not a couple will stay together is financial security. The squeeze on benefits has hit the already poor very hard. This leads to marital rows until the wife throws the husband out. Being poor, he then falls into homelessness and is bottom of the list for housing. This is compounded for male ex-forces families because the men in these circumstances are more likely to be violent to their wives and any mental health problems they have make it even more difficult for them to find new homes.

Obviously not everyone on the street fits this pattern, but this group definitely accounts for the increase in street homelessness that you see around you.

Buy one of them a coffee every now and again and have a chat, it's a striking pattern.

I've had a massive shock, moving from a small Welsh village to a town in England (not a city, a large town). At home, when I went to Cardiff and saw the homeless it would horrify me and I'd try and buy everyone I saw something decent eg a meal dral.

I tried that when I first moved but was spending far too much money and sometimes a line has to be drawn. I'd genuinely love to give everyone I see, something but that's not always possible. I know there's an argument to give money but I won't. I'm not saying all homeless use substances but some do, and I'll be buggered if I'm going to contribute to the hit that might kill them.
I'm an addict and I wouldn't Hand money over to my NA mates who I didn't know - I'd prob go in the shop and buy electric for eg - because I know how the addict mind works. I've asked my friend for rent money and spent it on drugs. And it's not moralising or standing on my soapbox, but frankly there are services out there (I'm engaging with one) and withdrawal while awful won't kill anyone. Gear especially can be cut with anything including bloody rat poison. If preferring to buy a hot drink for someone and not eat poison makes me stuck up then fine.

I tend to buy hot drinks now, although I always ask what they want obviously. I'll happily get someone a subway, and I hate walking past without giving anything. I'd rather give some biscuits from my own shopping or a bag of crisps from my own lunch, and have done. I've also handed over the cup of coffee I'm currently drinking, or Mints from my pocket. It's not. Much but it's something particularly coffee in this cold! They need it more than me.

Most people are really grateful. One guy I see every so often on the way to the train, I get a hot chocolate and he likes a twirl chocolate bar. One thing I've discovered that I'm unsure of is most guys want hot chocolate with tons of sugar in, unsure why though. Most are genuinely grateful for what they're given. I saw a poor guy tonight - lay on cardboard outside bus depot. Bought him a hot drink and got chatting, poor sod was shivering. He can grt in hostels but they're full of addicts (true) and drugs and he's 5yrs clean so can't do that. He seemed to appreciate just having a chat - I told him to come to a na meeting just to get support.

I have had one guy be a bit ungrateful - asked me to pull cash out the cash point for him, huffy when I said no, grudgingly asked for a hot drink and croissant when offered and then asked again for more money - but that's the one experience. Most are really grateful, although there is one lady who sits in the bushes in asda and jumps out at people walking by.

It's just so bloody sad. I think public / charity support has increased while government has decreased massively. The church in town gives a really good service - once a week they do a soup kitchen, but with proper homemade soup or curry, garlic baguettes, chocolate popcorn, hot tea etc. Much better than the mug of soup offerings! But then government support has reduced.

Cuts to mental health and other charities have been devastating. Take addiction support. It takes 2 wks to even get an appointment and a further 4 to get put on a script. What chaotic person can make those appointments and attend? And in those 6 weeks they're waiting, what's happening when they're taking rat poison infested gear?! The lack of support available is absolutely astonishing

“ No I gave up on trying to get help in the end which is why I can sympathise with people who turn to substances to help them cope”

Same with me. I know some people say “don’t give cash to homeless”. I think, whatever gets you through.

I’ll probably be slammed for saying it but the outer burb where I volunteer, I rarely see an English person. Homeless women seem to feel less safe in shelters and prefer to be outside.

I think they get moved on a lot in a deliberate attempt to fiddle figures.