To object to a religious song at a baby class?

[SecondTimer2019]

I take my baby (6mo) to a baby sensory class and this week the theme was 'rainbows'. At the end one of the songs played was 'Who put the colours in the rainbow?', which I remember from my childhood.

It asks who created all the amazing things in the world and ends by saying things like 'It can't be chance' and 'God made all of these'.

I'm not religious and think this environment should be secular. Obviously my baby can't understand the lyrics yet but I still feel it is inappropriate.

I'm thinking of contacting the organisers to let them know my feelings.

AIBU?

What about when kids are lied to about the tooth fairy and Father Christmas. Are they seriously damaged when they find out the truth?

Hang on. So you’re saying kids are lied to about God and then are seriously damaged when they find out the truth...?

Or are you simply trying to dodge the questions. I’d love to read some of the studies you have that shows lack of religion is to blame for mental health issues.

Sikhs and Hindus both have more than one God, so it wouldn’t make much sense to them

Sikhism is monotheistic.

“ Sikhism is monotheistic.”

Thank you- I didn’t know that. Doesn’t mean that Sikhs would necessarily want to sing a Christian hymn, though!

Incidentally @CravingCheese. Immortal Invisible God only Wise. Christian hymn or not?

Hang on. So you’re saying kids are lied to about God and then are seriously damaged when they find out the truth...?

Or are you simply trying to dodge the questions. I’d love to read some of the studies you have that shows lack of religion is to blame for mental health issues.

No I was looking at it from an atheists point of view, as in they object to things taught about God as the truth and won’t accept their kids being told something what they see as a lie, just the same as the tooth fairy and Father Christmas is a lie. I wondered if it was just God they objected to, but the other stuff was acceptable. After all, in their eyes all of it is nonsense.

As for what I’ve said about the lack of God in children’s lives and the connection with anxiety and stress etc.......it’s my opinion that’s all. I’m quite happy to accept others won’t agree with me.

No I was looking at it from an atheists point of view, as in they object to things taught about God as the truth and won’t accept their kids being told something what they see as a lie, just the same as the tooth fairy and Father Christmas is a lie

You’re getting confused. I don’t think of religion as a “lie”, but rather a fiction-based belief system. I object wholeheartedly to people equating religious beliefs as fact.

You donnt have to be an atheist not to want default Christianity in public life. There are lots of Christian Secularists.

Doesn’t mean that Sikhs would necessarily want to sing a Christian hymn, though!

SIkhs wouldn't enjoy singing the St Matthew Passion or Mozart's Requiem you think?

BertrandRussell Are you implying that other religions don’t indoctrinate their children from a young age?

It's a private enterprise, they can do what they want

“BertrandRussell Are you implying that other religions don’t indoctrinate their children from a young age?“

Not for a second. Where did you get that idea?

“ SIkhs wouldn't enjoy singing the St Matthew Passion or Mozart's Requiem you think?”

Can you really not see the difference between actively choosing to sing or listen to a great piece of Christian music, and a Christian hymn being part of a supposedly open to everyone non faith baby group?

As for what I’ve said about the lack of God in children’s lives and the connection with anxiety and stress etc.......it’s my opinion that’s all. I’m quite happy to accept others won’t agree with me.

Based on what? What makes you think singing non-religious songs instead of religious ones makes kids anxious?

@RitmoRatmo

Ahh that FP phone and my Grandfathers Clock😊

I never liked ‘soldier soldier won’t you marry me?’ I thought she was a bit desperate and he was a pig.

Immortal Invisible God only Wise. Christian hymn or not?

I have absolutely no idea, Bertrand. Translate it to Classical Arabic and I'd have to guess that it was Muslim. Make it Latin and I'd default to Catholic Christianity. If it's originally ge'ez I'd guess orthodox.

It does seem a bit monotheistic (due to the only) but that's all I would feel comfortable saying... It does however feel like it would rather universally appeal to various religions (at least the part you quoted, depends on what comes next, I guess).

How does your question (aka my knowledge about religious songs) pertain to this discussion?

Anyhow. I think it's unreasonable to expect a completely secular class when it wasn't advertised as such.

Trying to 'cleanse' our society from opposing points of view is a fairly silly and unhealthy idea.

Could also read it the Old English way wise meaning ‘to know’ ie ‘god only knows’ but that could be tautologous and pose even more of a problem for those of us who’d love religion not to intrude where it needn’t.

What are you going to do when your child goes to school? Non-faith schools in the UK are not secular.

“ Trying to 'cleanse' our society from opposing points of view is a fairly silly and unhealthy idea“

Yes, it would be. Good thing nobody is talking about doing that.

Incidentally, I asked about that hymn because you said, IIRC that to be Christian, a hymn had to mention the Trinity Mary or an apostle. Which do not feature in many very well known, very Christian hymns. Including that one.

“ Anyhow. I think it's unreasonable to expect a completely secular class when it wasn't advertised as such.”
That’s because you buy into the Christian as default stance. Which is unreasonable in a society of peol of many faiths and none.And even more unreasonable in a society which is less than 50% Christian.

What are you going to do when your child goes to school? Non-faith schools in the UK are not secular

We were going to withdraw her from worship. However the problem was solved by her going to a prep that didn’t have a daily act of worship.

Problem solved!

Immortal, invisible, God only wise,
In light inaccessible hid from our eyes,
Most blessèd, most glorious, the Ancient of Days,
Almighty, victorious, thy great Name

— New English Hymnal

Original version of last two stanzas from Hymns of Christ and the Christian Life, 1867.
[vv1-3 as before, then]

Great Father of glory, pure Father of light,
Thine angels adore Thee, all veiling their sight;
But of all Thy rich graces this grace, Lord, impart
Take the veil from our faces, the vile from our heart.

All laud we would render; O help us to see
’Tis only the splendour of light hideth Thee,
And so let Thy glory, Almighty, impart,
Through Christ in His story, Thy Christ to the heart.

Some of the original hymn.

The question of school is irrelevant to this issue. We know that the education in this country is default Christian so we can plan and decide how to deal with it.

"We were going to withdraw her from worship. However the problem was solved by her going to a prep that didn’t have a daily act of worship."

What about music class that might include hymns or requiems?

"even more unreasonable in a society which is less than 50% Christian."

59% of the population of England and Wales identify as Christian according to the ONS: www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion