Anyone with insomnia/sleep issues/take sleeping tablets for advice

[sundowners]

Hi
I have had sleep maintenance insomnia- ie. I wake 2-5 am and never get back to sleep for a year. Think it was triggered by a high intensity period of stress/worry which has then altered my body clock permanently into thinking waking so early is ok. Im about to start counselling. Tried everything else- Sleepeaze, Nytol, candles, sprays, melatonin so please don't suggest that!

Been treated by a sleep clinic- nothing has worked apart from sleeping tablets.

I started taking a month ago off and on- Zopiclone. Now taking say 5 nights out of 7- tried without it last night and I was up tossing/ turning all night. Literally did not drop off once.

I have 2 young DC/work part time and am so chronically shattered I just cant imagine doing without them right now. I thought given the amount of pre Christmas events/build up/kids days out and Christmas day itself I'll take until Christmas day, then from Christmas over 5 days gradually try to reduce my dose to wean myself off them? As DH will be off work so thought even if I don't sleep (much) during that period at least he'd be around to help with kids during day so I could try and get some rest then. I don't really get affected in day in a negative way after taking them, other then the metallic taste in mouth.

I clearly remember waking after another awful night of barely any sleep Christmas day last year, plastering my face with thick make up to try and hide my eye bags (doesn't work!) drinking to get me through it and feeling utterly shattered and depressed at how rubbish my sleep is. I just don't want to feel depressed on Christmas day- or special pre Christmas family/friends events again.

Would be so grateful for your thoughts and info about how you manage tour sleep/taking tablets etc?

Place marking

One of the studies here news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017

I’ve had reasonable success with finding sleep meditations on YouTube for the very early morning wakenings. Gives me something and nothing to listen to. I use a pillow speaker which slips under my pillow.

I take melatonin in addition to amytriptyline (I'm really bad). I tried different dose, but 9mg is the optimum for me. I oy very rarely have an issue falling asleep.

That's the good thing about amytriptyline, you can take it only a couple of times a week and don't suffer from the addictive issues.

It might also be a coincidence but my mood and anxiety has really improve since taking it despite the dose being nowhere near what would be to treat depression.

Just to add, night nurse does absolutely nothing to me! We're all different so its a case of trial and error.

I used to take mirtazapine, which was great at 15mg, but as you increase the dosage the sedative effect wears off, so when my GP tried to increase me to 30mg I stopped sleeping, whereas on 15mg or even 7.5mg as I used to take during tapering off I slept amazingly well. Even if I woke up I wasn't clock watching, thinking if I go back to sleep right now ill get another 3 hours sleep, 30 mins later, must go to sleep, need those extra 2.5 hours, and so on...

I've just ordered via US Amazon Kirkland Sleep Aid pills- active ingredient is Doxylamine Succinate, didn't do a thing for me. Was really holding out hope.

Is this the same/similar to Amitriptyline? Otherwise will give that a go too

CheersMedea- you are amazing- thankyoyu so much for taking the time with this. I do love a concrete action plan so will absolutely try this!

I love my morning coffee/a few teas during afternoon and yes sometimes my evening diet coke- so will find a week when I cut out all caffeine. Also maybe 3 out of 7 nights I drink, probably too much wine. So will also cut this out that same week. Will buy that spray, love This Works. Might have to be in a few weeks time when I have nothing on but I love your list and will tick everything off as I go... thankyou

I take an old fashioned antihistamine. Doxyline succinate which is the Kirkland sleep aid but I take it in Syndol which seems to work better.

There was a study a few years back linking doxylamine succinate to Alzheimer's, I spoke to my doctor and we both agreed that it is only part of the picture with regard to Alzheimer's and that living each day without being exhausted is really important and so I continue to take it but with some concern.

With regard to the melatonin in fact there is a lot of evidence that shows that the higher doses actually make you sleep worse and that the optimum dose can be as low as 0.3 of a milligram

My Fitbit and I would have to disagree.

The trials probably included men and women of all ages.

I have insomnia caused by the menopause.

For me it is a physical thing not a mental one that can be cured by lavender or relaxing

I was looking into why I didn’t lose weight despite eating sub 1500calories per day, usually around 1200 calories sometimes lower.

Looking at YouTube for diets I came across videos on how after menopause the oestrogen levels which kept your cortisol levels in check reduce so the cortisol levels rise which then means one thing leads to another and as well as going into insulin resistance it interferes with the production of Melatonin

I would be interested in the study to section out the post menopausal women who had slept fine before the menopause and see their results.

@sundowners @oliversmumsarmy

I have a problem with high cortisol levels(but not high enough to be treated medically and especially at night when they should be low.
I was severely insomniac for 15years.
I was totally Hypervigilent...the slightest noise would make me jump out of my skin-
I either did not sleep at all or fell asleep and woke every 2hours

Anyway 2 years ago I did a lot of research on line and I bought some Holy Basil capsules and started taking 2 capsules 4 times a day...I slept 7hours hours straight the first night.
I gradually over a period of a month dropped down to 1 to 2 capsules before bed and since then I have slept through at least 7hours every night without any problems.

Last night I took one capsule and slept for 5.5hours which is still better than waking every 2hours.
But for me the not jumping awake with heart pounding has been the best improvement along with good quality sleep
I only have one cup of coffee a day. No alcohol.

Here's link
www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/basil-benefits

I'm going back to my GP today- they initially gave me 7 x 3.5 Zopiclone but said if dose too low they'd give me more at higher dose.

I am seeing a different doctor today and am begging for the higher dose/ more Zopiclone to help me see my way to Xmas per my plan in my original message. Does anyone have any idea of the max amount of pills he would be willing to prescribe in 1 go? Thanks.

MsPepperPotts (love your name) will give it a go! Thanks

@AnybodyWantAChip which online pharmacy do you use for zopliclone

@sundowners maximum I've ever been prescribed is 14x 7.5mg Zopiclone for one month.

They are the ONLY thing that works for me. 3.5mg doesn't touch the sides.

I am down to my last 4 and I know dr won't prescribe anymore.

Why are docs so reluctant to prescribe? I don't abuse them, they give me 2 nights of decent sleep in 7 nights. It allows me to function, not be anxious etc ....

You can buy from online pharmacy's like UKMeds but they too and rightly saw are cautious to over prescribe still don't know why they just won't give me a load!!!

I agree fully aggitatedstate. Knowing the feeling after nights of no/little sleep- how depressed, groggy, heavy I feel- a shell of myself.

Far more dangerous in so many ways to be in this constant sleep deprived state than the risk of people getting "addicted" to sleeping tablets- if addiction means taking 1 pill at night as you know it helps you sleep, well I'd openly say I'm addicted to this but happily
no longer a chronic insomniac.

If people want to harm themselves- i.e if the worry is overdosing then lets just remove knives, steep cliffs etc- sorry to be morbid but people genuinely wanting to find a way out will find it. To not allow the majority of us who just want to take 1 pill at night to sleep is madness.

Totally with you OP @sundowners

Let me know what your doctor says today

MsPepperPotts, totally agree with your analysis of sleep deprivation during the menopause. As you say, the issue with cortisol is not one we can fully control with all the normal recommendations.

I have had quite a stressful life for many years, but always slept very well. I adopted a healthy lifestyle and it did the trick. Never took a sleeping pill in my life until I started the perimenopause.

As you describe it it is totally physical and hit at times there is no mental reason to fell stressed, it. around 4am. This description of hyper alertness is exactly that. No matter how utterly exhausted I am, my body is so alert, I might as well go for a run or start righting a book except that with lack of sleep comes brain fog and muscles that don't want to move!

My mum went through the same and at the time, doctors had no qualms prescribing valium. She took it for over 10 years every night and it kept her sane. She stopped it on her own when the menopause was over at 60. She's now 73 and still working, she has a lot more energy mentally and physically than I do. Doctors would never prescribe it now though.

My understanding is that zopiclone stops being effective but is addictive after a couple of weeks.

Another point to note is that low carb diets can cause serious insomnia. It's a recognised effect of those type of diets.

I had sleep deprivation depression residual from general PND. I didn't take sleeping tablets but found that my antidepressants affected my sleep in that I started dreaming again and tipped me back into normal sleeping patterns pre children.

Don't know if that helps you.

Hi op. I suffered horrendously when I was pregnant and it stayed with me for a year. I'm surprised a sleep clinic didnt help in any way?
For me what worked was therapy. Talking therapy. I held onto alot of anxiety and trauma. Gradually my sleep become normal again.

I have a 20 year history of chronic insomnia, like you it’s the staying asleep I struggle with.

Things that work for me:
12.5mg doxylamine pre bed (sold as Restavit where I live);
5mg diazepam (when I wake up at 2am feeling anxious);
6.25-12.5mg quetiapine pre bed
Same bedtime/wake schedule each day
Exercising at the gym for 45-60 mins, three times per week
Smaller evening meals
Avoiding foods that cause me reflux

Here’s a link to prescribing guidelines

bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/zopiclone.html

I hope you get on all right today OP. It’s a major bugbear of mine as I very much believe the damage caused by sleep deprivation is immense. Tom Bradby actually said said for him it was worse than being shot!

I’ve had a lot of people tell me it will be better when I retire!