Anyone with insomnia/sleep issues/take sleeping tablets for advice

[sundowners]

Hi
I have had sleep maintenance insomnia- ie. I wake 2-5 am and never get back to sleep for a year. Think it was triggered by a high intensity period of stress/worry which has then altered my body clock permanently into thinking waking so early is ok. Im about to start counselling. Tried everything else- Sleepeaze, Nytol, candles, sprays, melatonin so please don't suggest that!

Been treated by a sleep clinic- nothing has worked apart from sleeping tablets.

I started taking a month ago off and on- Zopiclone. Now taking say 5 nights out of 7- tried without it last night and I was up tossing/ turning all night. Literally did not drop off once.

I have 2 young DC/work part time and am so chronically shattered I just cant imagine doing without them right now. I thought given the amount of pre Christmas events/build up/kids days out and Christmas day itself I'll take until Christmas day, then from Christmas over 5 days gradually try to reduce my dose to wean myself off them? As DH will be off work so thought even if I don't sleep (much) during that period at least he'd be around to help with kids during day so I could try and get some rest then. I don't really get affected in day in a negative way after taking them, other then the metallic taste in mouth.

I clearly remember waking after another awful night of barely any sleep Christmas day last year, plastering my face with thick make up to try and hide my eye bags (doesn't work!) drinking to get me through it and feeling utterly shattered and depressed at how rubbish my sleep is. I just don't want to feel depressed on Christmas day- or special pre Christmas family/friends events again.

Would be so grateful for your thoughts and info about how you manage tour sleep/taking tablets etc?

I have young children and I found that I was listening out for them in the night or expecting them to wake up (my eldest has been an awful sleeper from the day she was born and I think my body didn't see the point in falling asleep when I would be waking up 15 minutes later). I got custom ear plugs made and wore them at night. Made a lot of difference as I was able to switch my brain off as I wasn't listening out for the kids.

The book The Effortless Sleep Method worked for me. Saw it recommended on here a few years ago.

I took nytol for a while, it is really just hay fever medication with all the sleep stuff left in.
It helped me sleep, but I started to get a bit addicted.
Partner hid it in the end.
Addressed the issue that was affecting my sleeping - bullying at work.
Much better now.

I struggle with sleep due to ME/CFS & Autism as well as MH problems, I take Mirtazapine 30mg & buy Phenergan 25mg from the chemist, it means that I have cut down having 3/7 bad nights to probably only 1 every 2-3 weeks.

How old are you?
Could be peri menopause hormone related?

also the poster who commented about "getting through the next day" - it depends what "getting through" means. If you get your words wrong in a presentation, can't make sense at a meeting, keep dropping things etc, then it isn't really working.

in that respect I do wish doctors would be less strict about it and I suspect the opioid crisis is linked to the changes in prescribing, at least in America.

sadly one thing you do learn with insomnia is to use anything that works, if you need to get through the next day with something vaguely resembling professionalism!

I’m shortly due to enter year five of insomnia. I think some people are just stuck with it

I can’t drop off and if I do I wake 8-10 times. It’s ridiculous.

The only thing that works for me is switching time zones

Another one for Amitriptyline. I too tried absolutely everything without success. Even when all the stresses of life got sorted, I remain with insomnia. Trouble falling asleep got resolved with 9mg melatonin. The issue is waking up up to 8 times a night and often unable to go back to sleep after 4am. Mine is due to the menopause and it's just the way it is.

Amitriptyline is really helping. It was wonderful to start with but I then got used to it and came with side effects, mainly a massive increased appetite and stomach issues.

I now take it twice a week and it's great. It really helps psychologically because even when I have a bad night, I know that at least a good one will be coming. I don't sleep as fantastic on it as I did when first taking it but it means not being up for good at 4am which is great. I time taking it around events in the week.

It is non addictive and much better than sleeping pills. I was reluctant to try it but really glad I did in desperation.

Thank-you all so much. Will go through comments again to get back to any questions.
I am 38, and went to GP to ask for a load of tests from pre-menopause to over active thyroid, came up negative for everything.

Endeavour1971 thankyou- just answered all the questions for sleeipo but get to end enter postcode and sadly I am not in an area this is available to me (yet i hope maybe it will broaden out).

Spudlet thankyou- good to know reducing it can be done. After the night before last when I didn't take one and literally felt sick with tiredness/heavy headed, zero energy I feel I need to keep on until after Christmas as theres too much going on I need to be fully on it for. Could barely move with fatigue yesterday.

thanks ittooshallpass feel your pain- and definitely get far too anxious/obsessed with thinking about sleep, know this is part of the problem but find it hard to push those worries away?

CheersMedea thanks so much for this, looked up Bimuno- sounds great and am ordering! Will try to get hold of that documentary too.

spudlet would you mind sharing how long you were on Zopiclone before you reduced your dose/weaned off it please?

The other thing to remember @sundowners (and this is the best advice I've ever had about sleep and insomnia) is that everything you did during the day, yesterday and the day before that leads into whether you go to sleep and how well you sleep. You should stop viewing sleep as as what can I do now at bedtime? type of problem.

Things like how much exercise you took, whether you ate properly, whether you are drunk as a lord, whether you had 50 coffees or no coffees, how many other diet cokes or caffeinated drinks you have, what you ate. It's all a routine that builds up to whether you sleep.

I know you said you'd tried everything but I also really like this particular pillow spray

www.thisworks.com/sleep/sleep-category/pillow-sprays/deep-sleep-pillow-spray-1034.html

They have another one called plus something but that's more about keeping you asleep. I found this one much more effective.

Are you able to have a couple of days at a weekend child free? If you are, why don't you try a mini-project of absolutely spoiling yourself with absolutely everything directed at getting you into a nice sleep routine so

force yourself to get up early and as soon as its light go outside for your UV dose
take some cardio exercise that tires you out or if that isn't possible for health reasons a long stretch of ligher exercise swim for an hour or a long walk
eat three meals that are healthy
absolutely no caffeine at all no tea or coffee
absolutely no alcohol (you can manage this for 2 days no matter how much you hate it)
make your dinner stuff that is reputed to produce tryptophan like a turkey and lettuce (making this up!) salad!
prep your bedroom during the day so its a haven change the sheets, dust and hoover and tidy it up if it needs it
have a hot bath before bed and a cool room
have the fibre drink mixed into something sleepy making that you like ovaltine or camomile sleep herbal tea
stop all electronic device activity at least an hour before you get in to bed
sleep spray on your pillow

Try this routine for two days and see how it goes. If you like it carry on. You could make it a fun slightly insane project where you do absolutely everything sleep improvement related and see what happens.

Be warned though that in my experience if you are big alcohol and caffeine drinker you will probably have to stick to a total abstinence routine for about 10 days before seeing a benefit. I'm not sure why this is - it maybe your body needs to adjust.

If you’re out of area for Sleepio there is an alternative called Sleep Station.

Amitriptyline, 5-10 mg a couple of times a week as needed, similar to @Dontdisturbmenow

I need to take it two to three hours before bedtime though.

I use so little the GP has never queried my repeat prescription requests. (5 mg is half a tablet.)

Same here Autumn, I take it at 6pm. It doesn't send me to sleep but it makes me sleep best the second half of the night which is when I struggle most.

It's nice to know that it isn't addictive and it works much better than sleeping pills.

Yes, it gets me over that 3am hill!

I have had huge sleep issues and swear by antihistmine/antihayfever tablets, bought over the counter. I often wake at 3 or 4 - but if I take an antihistamine the evening before, I find I can get back to sleep quite quickly

If we’re talking hardcore then liquid Nightnurse beats Amitriptyline or anything for that matter hands down.. practically puts me in a coma.

The Michael Mosley sachets work for me I take one every morning now in my coffee and it really has sorted out my sleep issues.

Prior to that I did have some zopiclone but my doctor wouldn't give me another prescription for it so I had to wean myself off it.

Booking marking for later reading.

Amitriptyline is addictive if you take it regularly. It also has a range of side effects that are unpleasant. I'm currenty on a dose of 12.5mg/day for neuropathic pain - not looking forwards to coming off it. By addictive I don't mean you crave it, I mean you will have very bad sleep problems for a week or so as you adjust to coming off it.
Zopliclone is also addictive in the same way. Take it for more than a few nights and you'll really struggle when you stop. I buy both my zopliclone and amitriptyline from an online pharmacy.

In the past I have tried a cocktail of anti-histamines, travel sickness pills, cocodamol etc to try and get to sleep.
My heart goes out to anyone who can't get a good night's sleep - it's miserable.
Somebody told me once that even if you can't sleep it's important to still lie in bed with your eyes closed. You may not be sleeping but you will still be getting some rest. Not sure if that is true.

I take Melatonin.

I know you did say you didn’t want to know but there is 2 types of Melatonin.

The maximum dose 2mg slow acting stuff you get in the UK which doesn’t even touch the surface.

Then there is the stuff I take which is from the US which is fast acting. I take 7-8mg each night

It works a lot of time to give me about 6 hours sleep.

The only time I took the stuff that we get in this country I had the grand total of 1.5 hours sleep.
Total rubbish.

Following with interest I have had some success with amitryptaline which was prescribed for chronic pain which wakes me at night.
The best advise I got regarding the amitryptaline was to decide what time you want to wake up then take it exactly 12 hours before. So for me I take it at 7pm go to bed at 9:30 and can be asleep by 10-10:30 I can still wake with pain but I feel so much better for having a good 5 hours or so of uninterrupted sleep.

I-know I won't get another prescription because I'm due a steroid injection soon which should help, but I tend to cut my tablets in half so take 5mg and as others have said save them for when I really need a good night. I've tried Zopiclone too which helped me fall asleep but doesn't stop me waking up. Also had the most awful bitter taste in my mouth when I was on it.

The other thing I've tried is a podcast called sleep with me, it's free and is just episodes of a man called Scooter with a really monotone voice talking about absolutely everything and nothing! it can help to take my mind of the clock watching when I'm in my 'witching hours' off 2-5 am.

@Oliversmumsarmy can I ask where you get it? I've heard that the UK one is very weak and I gather more for children with ADHD.
I'm sure someone told me you can buy it over the counter in the USA but I have no plans to visit any time soon 😬

With regard to the melatonin in fact there is a lot of evidence that shows that the higher doses actually make you sleep worse and that the optimum dose can be as low as 0.3 of a milligram.