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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rees Mogg uses common sense to flee burning building.

396 replies

longwayoff · 05/11/2019 10:55

Or, he would, if he were to find himself in that situation. Having previously insulted the medical knowledge and expertise of a leading neurologist, he now advises ignoring fire service advice, saying those who died in Grenfell lacked common sense and should have left the building. AIBU to say this man's ignorance is an embarrassment and he is unfit for public service?

OP posts:
ForalltheSaints · 05/11/2019 21:34

Jacob Rees-Mogg does not believe in abortion in any circumstances and in the fidelity of marriage. So why does he serve in a government led by the most unfaithful man ever to run this country?

He should be dumped by his local Conservative party, even after his apology.

TheQueef · 05/11/2019 21:35

This is what will be 're elected and his like.
They should be in some reality show about odd bods not running the fucking country.
We are so pre programmed to fawn at these upper crust vampires feet it is crushing.
Check the Johnsons and Moggs bank balances during all this.
The only way is up for them.

Velveteenfruitbowl · 05/11/2019 21:40

YANBU in that was an unkind thing to say. HWNBU in that it’s common sense to flee a burning building and also its common sense not to trust any public services in Britain - they seek to almost universally give bad advice and the law in negligence is very much on their side so they have no incentive to improve.

He still shouldn’t have said it, there’s no need to state the obvious in such tragic circumstances.

LoyaltyBonus · 05/11/2019 21:40

I think it could also be said that it's "common sense" to know how such comments would play out. Unfortunately, I suspect that JRM knew exactly how his remarks would go down with his core voters, and there will be some who are agreeing with him that these poor, black, social housing residents should have known better Sad Angry

Velveteenfruitbowl · 05/11/2019 21:41

@merrymouse so it’s better to leave them there to burn? That doesn’t seem very common sense either. They could have evacuated floor by floor or something if they were really concerned about that.

woodhill · 05/11/2019 21:44

Terrifying if it was pitch black, you could easily slip over or get crushed not to mention spoke damage

worriedmumtoteen · 05/11/2019 21:49

I can’t imagine Rees-Mogg has any knowledge at all of escaping from a tower block in a fire. If his mansion went on fire, I’m sure he’d be able to escape from multiple doors without having to fight with hundreds of others to get down the stairs in the pitch dark.

He is an absolute fuckwit, an insensitive, stupid, out of touch, in humane arsehole, devoid of empathy and humanity. He is unfit for public office. Like a lot of the Tories.

worriedmumtoteen · 05/11/2019 21:52

@Babynamechangerr - the stay put policy works - before the cladding was put on. Each flat has a fireproof door and is a sealed unit so a fire in one can be tackled and the fire won’t spread. But the cladding was only put on recently, and nobody thought about fire racing up the cladding up the outside of the building and the fire coming in the windows. That’s the tragedy of Grenfell.

HelenaDove · 05/11/2019 21:57

Back in 2004 there was a fire in the block opposite mine. Fire was contained within the flat. Damage to flat below was mainly water damage No cladding.

merrymouse · 05/11/2019 21:58

@merrymouse so it’s better to leave them there to burn? That doesn’t seem very common sense either. They could have evacuated floor by floor or something if they were really concerned about that.

Tower blocks are supposed to be designed so that the fire doesn't spread.

Two firemen died in the Shirley Towers fire, and the flat was destroyed, but the fire did not spread and Shirely Towers is still standing.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-18786308

The problem with a tower block is that when you evacuate people you may be directing towards the fire and into a trap. With the benefit of hindsight there was a break down in communication and people were given the wrong advice. However, it isn't common sense to assume that you have more knowledge than the emergency services.

merrymouse · 05/11/2019 22:02

HWNBU in that it’s common sense to flee a burning building and also its common sense not to trust any public services in Britain - they seek to almost universally give bad advice and the law in negligence is very much on their side so they have no incentive to improve.

If that is genuinely what he believes after his party has been in government for 9 years, 'fuckwit' doesn't even begin to describe him.

HelenaDove · 05/11/2019 22:33

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/05/anger-as-government-lists-grenfell-firm-approved-contractor

Anger as government lists Grenfell firm as approved contractor
Recladding contractor Rydon is officially recommended for building high-rise housing

The government has placed the builder that oversaw the disastrous refurbishment of Grenfell Tower on an official list of firms recommended to build high-rise housing, a move that has sparked fury among survivors.

Rydon was the main contractor on the recladding which spread the fatal blaze that claimed 72 lives in 2017. The decision less than three years later to name it as one of the firms on a new £30bn seven-year construction framework agreement has been attacked as “adding insult to injury” by the bereaved and survivors.

Rydon will face intense scrutiny in the second phase of the public inquiry into the disaster, which will begin in the new year after the first phase last week concluded that the £10m refurbishment of Grenfell broke building regulations

All the companies involved in the refurbishment are also understood to be part of the investigation by the Met police for potential criminal offences including manslaughter and corporate manslaughter. Rydon has been named as one of 12 firms on the framework agreement that helps public sector bodies find building companies. The firm more than doubled its post-tax profits in the year after the disaster to £16.6m.

“It is totally unacceptable that Rydon, one of the companies required to answer questions for its role in the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower, would be put on a government list that promotes it as a reputable contractor for other high-rise towers,” said a spokesperson for Grenfell United, the main group representing bereaved families and survivors.

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“It makes us question the government’s intention to learn the lessons of Grenfell. [The housing secretary] Robert Jenrick must suspend Rydon from this list and explain how the contractor under investigation for Grenfell ended up there.”

A government spokesperson said: “There is absolutely no guarantee of a company securing government contracts just because they are on a framework. Under existing EU rules, we are not legally allowed to preclude Rydon Construction from bidding for government contracts.”

If a company is charged with an offence they can be excluded from bidding for work, officials said

Rydon declined to comment on its selection, which was first reported by Construction News.

The move came as Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the House of Commons, was forced to apologise for saying he would have evacuated the burning building as it was “the common sense thing to do”.

Survivors described his remarks as “extremely painful and insulting” and the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, said they were “crass” and “insensitive”. Dozens of people were trapped by smoke and flames and were repeatedly told to stay put by 999 call operators.

On Tuesday, Rees-Mogg said: “What I meant to say is that I would have also listened to the fire brigade’s advice to stay and wait at the time. However, with what we know now and with hindsight I wouldn’t and I don’t think anyone else would. I would hate to upset the people of Grenfell if I was unclear in my comments.”

Also on Tuesday, the London fire brigade commissioner, Dany Cotton, told the London assembly that she feared firefighters and commanders could not be trained to tackle cladding fires similar to Grenfell.

“I still have concerns that even though we have a far greater understanding of that [the spread of cladding fires], it would be very difficult to implement training to respond to some of these situations because it is still such an extraordinary event of such a big scale that we still have huge concerns about fires in those types of buildings.

Cotton was previously lambasted for claiming that preparing a training package for a Grenfell-style fire would have been like planning for the “space shuttle landing on the Shard [skyscraper]”. Asked why a 2016 London fire brigade (LFB) document detailing the risk of high-rise cladding fires had not been disseminated, she said: “I don’t know why.”

Cotton has resisted calls to quit in the wake of last week’s public inquiry report into the night of the disaster, which found the LFB’s failure to prepare and plan for a cladding fire and evacuation was “gravely inadequate” and a breach of national guidance. Sir Martin Moore-Bick, the chair of the Grenfell inquiry, said the LFB was guilty of an “institutional failure” to inform firefighters about the risks of cladding fires before the disaster and said “the LFB is an institution at risk of not learning the lessons of the Grenfell Tower fire”

Yep Totally nothing to do with having the enquiry arse about face,

Oct18mummy · 05/11/2019 22:39

Boris needs to do the right thing for once and sack him!

He has no idea about the real world or the people in it and is a sanctimonious snob (being very polite here!)

justgivemewine · 05/11/2019 22:41

Just seen this on telly, cant repeat what dh and I said about JRM.

The old mumsnet twunt may have been mentioned 😁

HelenaDove · 05/11/2019 22:49

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21609931

Lakanal House fire: Panels caught fire 'too quickly'
27 February 2013
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Image caption
Catherine Hickman was one of six people killed in the blaze
Materials used in the refurbishment of a tower block caught fire "too quickly" in a blaze which claimed the lives of six people, an inquest heard.

Panels put into Lakanal House in south-east London, which caught fire in 2009, had four-and-a-half minutes of fire resistance.

The inquest jury at Lambeth Town Hall was told firefighters had expected them to have lasted one hour.

The panels were being put in to replace asbestos.

'Lamentable failure'
The inquest was also told a surveyor was not familiar with building regulations which relate to fire spreading.

James Cousins, a surveyor who was hired by contractor Apollo, said: "We put in materials that were less fire resistant than what was there before."

The surveyor said Southwark Council - the landlord - did not instruct him to make sure the refit met building regulations and that he would normally have acted on their behalf. However, the council told the inquest it was Apollo's duty.

John Hendy QC, the lawyer for the families of those that died, described it as "a fundamental breach of building regulations… a lamentable failure of the contractor Apollo".

Catherine Hickman, 31, Dayana Francisquini, 26, and her children, six-year-old Thais, and Felipe, three, were killed in the fire.

Helen Udoaka, 34, and her three-week-old daughter Michelle also died.

The inquest continues.

sam221 · 05/11/2019 22:51

So today JRM has served the party line well, providing distraction as a 'certain report' about 'Russian' involvement in our Electoral process was blocked from the public.
JRM disdain for the poor is utterly vile and reprehensible. He should be made to resign, his fake apology is so transparent. Members of the public in his constituency should for once vote, with a heart and kick him out.

Bottom line in a fire, no one really knows how they would react and to blame the poors victims is really a disgusting!

everythingisginandroses · 05/11/2019 22:55

He's a two-bob cunt.

Fuzzywuzzywuzzy · 05/11/2019 22:56

When a building is on fire, it is common sense to get out no matter what other people are saying. A lot of those that survived, did just that. They didn't listen to the firemen and are still here.

The truth hurts and maybe Rees Mogg should have kept his mouth shut about it like most people have done. He's apologised so let's move.

However, the furore is because it was Rees Mogg that said it. Those that are jumping up and down about this are looking for any excuse to hurl bricks at him. I know though that he just gave them an almighty big one.

However, the vitriol about him on here is astounding. Some of you are forgetting that keyboard warrior nastiness is nastiness whether it comes from a right wing nationalist or a left wing socialist. So less of the string him up mentality please!

PortiaCastis · 05/11/2019 22:57

He's an insufferable twat who should be removed and made to scrub the pavements of hell the snotty little tuss.

justgivemewine · 05/11/2019 23:05

Tory pass the buck game

Let’s Blame the firefighters for giving the correct advice for any normal towerblock fire, for not being psychic and realising this one was different, and then risking their lives to get people out, even breaking their own safety rules in order to try and save people.

Blame the residents for not having the common sense to disregard advice from professionals ( which in any non flammable clad tower block) would have been spot on

Blame anyone we can except the fucking idiots who decided to save a few pounds by cladding the place in a fire accelerant

HelenaDove · 05/11/2019 23:08

Apparently gaslighting bastard Gavin Barwell is on Newsnight so i thought id link this again.

www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/special-investigation--the-lost-lessons-of-lakanal-how-politicians-missed-the-chance-to-stop-grenfell-61834

StoneofDestiny · 05/11/2019 23:14

He holds everybody in contempt except himself. Lying flat out on the seats in Parliament showed how he felt only his voice and view should be listened to.
He should resign in shame - Johnson won't have the moral fibre to get rid of him.

Jente · 05/11/2019 23:15

YANBU. The man's a revolting piece of shit.

merrymouse · 05/11/2019 23:16

When a building is on fire, it is common sense to get out no matter what other people are saying.

Again if the best thing to do in an emergency is ignore the emergency services, what have the government been doing for the last 9 years? What had Boris Johnson been doing as London Mayor for 8 years.

For a government minister to talk like this about the emergency services is astounding.

merrymouse · 05/11/2019 23:22

Tory pass the buck game

Except passing the buck doesn't wash when the PM was London Mayor for the 8 years preceding the fire.