Rees Mogg uses common sense to flee burning building.

[longwayoff]

Or, he would, if he were to find himself in that situation. Having previously insulted the medical knowledge and expertise of a leading neurologist, he now advises ignoring fire service advice, saying those who died in Grenfell lacked common sense and should have left the building. AIBU to say this man's ignorance is an embarrassment and he is unfit for public service?

The Tories have always viewed the 'poor' with contempt, but have ramped up their demonisation, along with encouraging a dog eat dog attitude in the last decade. Their whole objective has been to portray the poor, the vulnerable, the down on their luck and those with disabilities as lazy, and/or stupid, and/or irresponsible. In short, if you're 'needy' and can't provide for yourself then blaming that group for their misfortune means the state can wash their hands of them with a clear conscience.... After all, if people weren't so lazy, weren't so stupid, weren't so irresponsible then they wouldn't be in such a pickle. You get the picture.

Rees Mogg's disgusting lack of sensitivity and compassion regarding Grenfell is, sadly, an extension of that whole thought process. He's effectively saying its residents only have themselves to blame for their fate. He probably thinks that if they'd 'worked harder', got a 'better' job and so on then they wouldn't have needed to be living in Grenfell at all.

I have to say in the same danger I would have fled too and would not have waited as the fire service instructed, I don't think I would have listened to the fire service under the circumstances. Instinct would be overwhelming, and I would probably ignore the advice, and done my best to escape. I don't place all of my trust lock stock and barrel in any professional service or so called expert generally speaking, so I would have questioned whether they were right to tell anyone to stay.

I feel for the people involved in this terrible fire, and they are in our thoughts and prayers. They are not responsible for any of this, and were making the best decisions they could in very difficult circumstances.

Rees-Mogg is a disgusting human being and I have only contempt for him and his like. Victim blaming vultures.

I think you need to listen to the interview on LBC to put the comment in context - the question put to him was whether the London Fire Brigade's advice was based on racism or class - at the time I thought JRM answered the question quite sensitively, although it is right that he should apologise if he has caused any distress.

Question and answer here 23:47;
www.lbc.co.uk/radio/special-shows/ring-rees-mogg/ring-rees-mogg-jacob-rees-moggs-phone-in-4nov19/

To be fair to JRM, the distressed relative featured in the papers today also told his sister-in-law to 'Get out' over the phone at the time of the fire, but yes, unfortunately the family followed the Fire Brigade's advice.

Having previously insulted the medical knowledge and expertise of a leading neurologist

Personally, I thought the doctor was peddling hysterical scaremongering - his reference to 'body bags' related to an extra 6 weeks supply - mentioned in a list with other 'medical consumables' the NHS uses on a daily basis.The items were being stockpiled back in February because they are manufactured in and/or come via the EU and the Dover-Calais crossing - not because more people were expected to die.

What Max said.

The News discussion has been aimed at criticising the Fire service.

This has distracted public attention from the reprehensible behaviour of FOUR housing ministers who, after two previous fatal fires of flats clad in flammable cladding, had been warned of the dangers. FYI, in England, the Housing Minister is responsible for Building Regulations. One of their purposes is to protect life by not having buildings that will burn like a Roman Candle.

www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/government-was-warned-in-2014-that-grenfell-type-cladding-was-dangerous/10033893.article

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40330789

Criminal negligence.

Greatorb
don't be daft, no one knows how they would react in case of extreme emergency, and people panic - it's unavoidable.

Knowing what people now know about the fire, the majority will try to escape - same as they tried to escape the twin towers. Rightly or wrongly, but it's pretty obvious the majority will try to escape!

These men and women risk their lives to try to save others.

Yes, that's exactly what JRM said as well.

I find it remarkable that a building that high was built with only one central staircase. The point here is that firefighters would have to climb the one central staircase carrying hoses, and other equipment, while at the same time, residents would be trying to flee down the stairs.

Normally, it would make sense for residents to stay put, if there is a small fire on the 4th floor. I can well imagine the frustration of all those residents on higher floors, up to floor 24, etc, having to leave.

However, in this case, there obviously came a point when the 'small' fire became a 'large' fire, and was not contained in the flat.
This was the point of the report, I think, that the firefighters should have realised one hour before they actually did, and altered their advice to that of leaving.

Also, if residents are told to stay put, are they expected to repeatedly contact the fireservice to ascertain if the advice has changed, or not?
Otherwise, how is the new advice - to leave - communicated to residents?

There was a similar fire in Camberwell in 2009 (Lanakal House ) where several people died after being advised to remain in the building. So, the fireservice already had an earlier example where this advice was incorrect and failed to learn from that fire.

I hasten to add, I am not criticising individual firefighters, but that the advice had not been updated at all.

Common sense is always available in hindsight, but I do not think residents would have found it that easy. The stairs would have been filled with smoke and visibility would be very poor. We heard from residents that did escape, that they were climbing over bodies, unseen in the dark.

I have not actually heard JRM remarks, and not sure whether they have been taken out of contect. On the face of it, they sound remarkably insensitive.

He’s a nasty cunt.

And I can’t believe 9% of people don’t agree with you OP.

Yep, he's a vile ignorant cunt. And nothing more.

Criminal negligence

Indeed PigletJohn and RM is part of the deliberate distraction away from the Govt.

He disgusts me. As does very single person that votes for him and his party.

I just listened to it - follwed the link posted by Clavinova. OP - if you have a point to make give the context.

He was specifically asked about the advice given by the fire brigade. He did not randomly say that GF Victims died because they lacked common sense. You may still disagree with him or hate him but more useful to discuss what he actually said in context.

These creatures make me ashamed to be a member of the human race - vile, elitist, protectionist, money grabbing shits who care nothing for the rest of us.
They have no soul and don't deserve to walk the same planet.
Thank you for those links PigletJohn.

@ThatMuppetShow

Which part of my post was daft?

PigletJohn - I agree with you

Autumn, I agree.

Common sense was a poor use of words. But I remember Lakanal House when people were told to stay put, and died. There is no way I would have stayed knowing what happened then. But that's in no way a criticism of the residents. If I had like many of them had young kids or elderly relatives, scared and in the dark, I might well have followed FB advice too.

I would have fled, however with tow or three small children, i doubt it would have been any easy thing to do. Especially if you were on an upper floor.

Bloody shameful that people still live in buildings clad with this stuff!

Logic actually tells you to stay. Human instinct tells you to flee.

The reasons to stay are ; a fire door gives you 45 mins. Behind 2 fire doors that’s an hour and a half. Never before has a building of that sort ignited in that way. You assume the building meets its fire regulations. Why wouldn’t it?

And here is the important bit. Had it met regulations, the FB advice would have been correct!

The point is that the residents of Grenfell Tower should have never been put in the position where they had to choose between dying on a stairwell or staying put to burn to death. It doesn't matter whether you would / wouldn't follow the advice of emergency services in that scenario, at best that's just a philosophy or logic puzzle. But point is that they should never have had to be in that situation in the first place.

I'm also astonished there was only 1 staircase.

I have a relative who lives on the 17th floor of a 1960s built block. There is both a main staircase near the lifts and a kind of back staircase which I was always told was for fire/ emergencies. It beggars belief some buildings don't have this. In my naivety I imagined it was standard to tower blocks.

Shocking!

The only reason the stay put advice wasn’t effective was that the building failed because it had been compromised by incompetence and cost-cutting.

Ffs he's not wrong