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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think House of Fraser’s refund policy is another nail in their coffin

481 replies

Bearbehind · 04/11/2019 19:34

I bought several expensive and heavy items online with the intention of choosing 1 and taking the others back to my local store for a refund

Turns out you can only exchange or get a credit note in store

If you want your money back you have to post it back at your own cost

Given the weight and value, I’m nearly £30 down for the pleasure.

Surely they can’t afford to piss customers off by refusing to refund in store - what difference does it make to them?

Very expensive lesson learned!

I will never buy from them again

OP posts:
JassyRadlett · 07/11/2019 09:20

It really wasn’t weird until you made it so

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on who made it weird. So sorry to have interrupted your soapbox with debate about the issue you clearly only wanted to rant about. Grin

I’ll leave you to it.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/11/2019 09:23

I noticed you didn’t actually acknowledge you were incorrect about the distance selling regulations meaning retailers have to offer a refund whatever the reason for return. Because I wasn't wrong about the Customer Contract Regulations or the Consumer Rights Act. You can read it how you like, you can ignore WHICH. But you can also traipse through the .gov.uk site and read there precisely the same information.

The retailer may have a returns policy stating that it will only give customers a credit note or vouchers for returns. But this must only apply where customers are looking to return an unwanted item. but you can ask for cash refund.

I didn't acknowledge it because it was not worth the effort of continuing to point out the difference between faulty goods and unwanted ones, asking and having to be given etc.

now you've lost me. Really? The whole thread has been full of those who expect a lot of service for little effort and others who see that this might not be a sustainable model for retailers. Discussion about hidden costs, various models, procing etc. The whole online shopping experince is about convenience. And the want, need, desire for it to be ever more easily accessible and customer favouring.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/11/2019 09:26

Woodchuck I was, as I explained a few times, talking about society, the changes in shopping habits, not any individual poster!

I am sorry that the changes in shopping habits interested me and that I posted my thoughts. I obviously misunderstood the concepts offered up and am not a good fit for such threads.

Happy convenient shopping

woodchuck99 · 07/11/2019 09:27

Who’s arguing that? Particularly about online-only rather than integrated businesses?

You have argued that it wouldn't be profitable for House of Fraser and other businesses to let people shop online and return items for free and have suggested that this is why integrated stores with shopfronts have gone out of business. The fact that stores without shopfronts are able to make profits despite letting customers return items free suggests doing this is profitable and is more likely that having shopfronts is not profitable.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 07/11/2019 09:27

I wasn’t ranting so much as stating it made no sense to me for them to be so uncompetitive and gauging others views.

It was a simple HOF v their competitors

It wasn’t a discussion on high st retailing v on line in general

Even if you don’t buy multiple items with the intention of returning them, sometimes things you buy online just don’t suit

With JL you would have had free delivery (over £50) and free returns

With HOF you are going to pay for both

So it’s not hard to see who is going to get the sale in the say 90% likelihood you keep what you order

OP posts:
Original poster
Bearbehind · 07/11/2019 09:29

But this must only apply where customers are looking to return an unwanted item. but you can ask for cash refund.

Goodness me, I know I can be stubborn but this is something else.

You said retailers do not have to give a refund for unwanted items purchased on line

That’s completely incorrect - they do.

OP posts:
woodchuck99 · 07/11/2019 09:31

Happy convenient shopping

That is a ridiculous comment. Why shouldn't people want to shop in the most convenient way possible and if shops are going to offer that service why would they take it up. You could be considered the selfish one to expect people to not shop online because you like shopping in stores.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/11/2019 09:32

... I give in! That is so obtuse!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/11/2019 09:33

That is a ridiculous comment. f you can't read the nuance, the context, behind the comment then the last 17 pages have been a total waste of time!

myolivetree · 07/11/2019 09:34

Really? The whole thread has been full of those who expect a lot of service for little effort and others who see that this might not be a sustainable model for retailers. Discussion about hidden costs, various models, procing etc. The whole online shopping experince is about convenience. And the want, need, desire for it to be ever more easily accessible and customer favouring.

So do I conclude that you think that it's sort of "selfish" to want to online shop and wanting the 'convenience'of online shopping?

And yes @CuriousaboutSamphire you are wrong about the distance selling regulations.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/11/2019 09:34

Customer Contract Regulations...

CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/11/2019 09:35

oops! Consumer Contract Regulations

woodchuck99 · 07/11/2019 09:36

Really? The whole thread has been full of those who expect a lot of service for little effort and others who see that this might not be a sustainable model for retailers.

Considering that online retailers are doing quite well in contrast to the high street shops don't you think that it is the high street shop model which is unsustainable?

Discussion about hidden costs, various models, procing etc. The whole online shopping experince is about convenience. And the want, need, desire for it to be ever more easily accessible and customer favouring.

What about the hidden costs in having shopfront in the first place? Obviously these are greater or high street shops wouldn't be going out of business while online deliveries businesses are generally doing well.

PenguinBollard · 07/11/2019 09:38

If it's costing you £30+ to send it back then it'll be costing HOF similar.
Let's be generous and say they're postage is half that.

So to post you items - £15.
So then pay for the return of the items - £15
So straight away they've lost £30

Not including the admin costs of all of this - if they'd have offered free returns and refunded the postage (if they even charged postage in the first place) that transaction would have cost them more than £30.

As a general rule of thumb, retail prices are double wholesale - so the item that you kept would have to be have been £60 just so they'd break even.

Amazon and John Lewis have fantastic returns policies, but the bar is way way too high. I don't know about JL, but Amazon now have a dedicated delivery team so their delivery costs are going to be wrapped in, but HOF, JL and the rest use places like DPD - ie. Costs them a lot of money, and they can't get that refunded.

PenguinBollard · 07/11/2019 09:39

*their
😱

myolivetree · 07/11/2019 09:39

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Yeh I'm not on here to bandy about regs and rules that can be googled easily. We've all got the internet and can read.

I return things everyday AS PART OF MY JOB.

Yes online shopping is not just used by private selfish shoppers.

woodchuck99 · 07/11/2019 09:40

If you can't read the nuance, the context, behind the comment then the last 17 pages have been a total waste of time!

I have read the nonce the context behind your comments and I find them to be not only patronising as well as ignorant.

havingtochangeusernameagain · 07/11/2019 09:41

I noticed you didn’t actually acknowledge you were incorrect about the distance selling regulations meaning retailers have to offer a refund whatever the reason for return

This isn't incorrect. There are a few exceptions for example, bespoke goods, but if you buy something online, you CAN return it for any reason. The law is different if you buy in a shop, and then you are reliant on goodwill policies unless the item is faulty or misdescribed (eg the box said it was blue and when you got it home and opened the box it was red).

JassyRadlett · 07/11/2019 09:46

Considering that online retailers are doing quite well in contrast to the high street shops don't you think that it is the high street shop model which is unsustainable?

Others have explained in some detail the particular challenges of running an integrated online/bricks and mortar model compared with online only. And yes, it may well be that high street is (mostly) doomed as a result of our changed shopping habits.

But given OP’s gripe was about having to return her unwanted purchases by post instead of to a physical shop, I’m not sure an online-only retail future is going to float her boat...

woodchuck99 · 07/11/2019 09:46

If it's costing you £30+ to send it back then it'll be costing HOF similar.
Let's be generous and say they're postage is half that.

I don't think his generous to say that it cost them half a much. It may cost very little. When I worked in retail chain, returns were taken by the delivery drivers taking things the shop. That system worked pretty well and I doubt it cost anything like the amount it would have cost posted. House of Fraser may not have a system place because they have chosen to separate their online and shop front business but is that that is there choice and their problem not the consumers.

myolivetree · 07/11/2019 09:46

@havingtochangeusernameagain
Totally

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Are people with mobility issues, small children, living in rural areas, no transport and others "selfish" to online shop? Do they get special dispensation?

woodchuck99 · 07/11/2019 09:48

Others have explained in some detail the particular challenges of running an integrated online/bricks and mortar model compared with online only. And yes, it may well be that high street is (mostly) doomed as a result of our changed shopping habits.

Yes I have read your patronising explanations. My point is that it is the bricks and mortar part of the integration that is probably the unprofitable rather than the online part.

woodchuck99 · 07/11/2019 09:51

But given OP’s gripe was about having to return her unwanted purchases by post instead of to a physical shop, I’m not sure an online-only retail future is going to float her boat...

I think her gripe was about having to pay to post it. If she had used an online clothes retailer returns probably would have been free as that is generally how they operate.

myolivetree · 07/11/2019 09:52

*The whole online shopping experince is about convenience. And the want, need, desire for it to be ever more easily accessible and customer favouring.
@CuriousaboutSamphire *

You don't run Mothercare do you?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/11/2019 09:52

Are people with mobility issues, small children, living in rural areas, no transport and others "selfish" to online shop? Do they get special dispensation? Oooh! Go low, olivetree go low!