To think House of Fraser’s refund policy is another nail in their coffin

[Bearbehind]

I bought several expensive and heavy items online with the intention of choosing 1 and taking the others back to my local store for a refund

Turns out you can only exchange or get a credit note in store

If you want your money back you have to post it back at your own cost

Given the weight and value, I’m nearly £30 down for the pleasure.

Surely they can’t afford to piss customers off by refusing to refund in store - what difference does it make to them?

Very expensive lesson learned!

I will never buy from them again

No it's all about pleasing customers whilst making a profit.

Absolutely, but it's not always possible to both all the time.

Good businesses, should, imo, have an excellent returns policy because while, yes, a handful of people will take the piss, it generally ensures that your loyal customers remain loyal.

Like a PP said, pleasing customers now (while perhaps making a small loss on their transactions) will ensure you keep them as customers in the long run. But if you're barely making a profit as it is (for whatever reason) you may not be able to handle a temporary drop in profit.

With shops such as Next, John Lewis, H&M combining on line with bricks &mortar to offer the best of both.

I would agree with you about John Lewis, but totally disagree about the other two offering "the best of both".

Personally I hate Next - the shops always look messy, the clothing feels cheap and poor quality and I would never shop somewhere that makes their staff work at 4am on Boxing Day just so people can buy cheap t-shirts and shoes.

H&M is also pretty poor quality and I've not shopped there for several years now. I like the look of their stuff but it never lasts long in my experience. I've had some decent jeans from there but that's about it, really.

Don't think HoF know who they are targeting.

Probably. As I said earlier, they may in a combo of pure survival and broader brand repositioning, with a side serving of operating in a new environment as one part of a very complex financial entity.

Wasn't really debating the products those places sell - more the idea that they all deliver, do click and collect, free returns ( some exceptions) and free returns to store.

YANBU, glad you've highlighted this, a shop to avoid!

I avoid Next like the plague, for example, because I don’t find its set up particularly matches my own preferred way of shopping.

I’m actually finding this funny now 😂 it’s all very serious.

How can Next not match the way you like to shop? They offer fantastic delivery and returns plus have a heavy high st presence.

You might not like what they sell but that’s a different matter

I’d love to know what your ‘preferred way to shop is’

But yes, the HoF model isn’t convenient for the way OP likes to shop. Whether HoF is targeting OP’s segment is not known.

Again this is massively over exaggerating the issue. It’s much more simple than that - their returns policy is shit, they don’t stock much in store and you can buy the same stuff elsewhere with better service

How can Next not match the way you like to shop? They offer fantastic delivery and returns plus have a heavy high st presence.

I hate their shops, don’t really like their website and don’t really think their stuff is particularly good quality or well designed for the price.

Somehow, somehow their ‘fantastic delivery and returns’ have failed to convince me to ignore that their shops are overcrowded and disorganised, their staff aren’t great and their clothes are dispiriting. I know, shocking, isn’t it?

I agree with your last paragraph. I have no idea why people shop at House of Fraser at all unless it is the only department store near their work and they need to buy something at lunchtime, or what induced you to order from them in the first place.

But what I’m saying is that HoF returns policy wouldn’t bother me at all, because ‘buy 4 expensive items with the intention of returning 3’ simply isn’t the way I shop, and returning things to a shop is expensive and inconvenient for me most of the time.

So, shit for you, fine for me, because convenience is subjective and we shop really differently.

There are many many other reasons I wouldn’t buy online from HoF though!

You are taking this very seriously jassy

Way more thought that the original post required! 😂

You are taking this very seriously jassy

Way more thought that the original post required!

You will be relieved to know that it has required very little thought at all, and that I’m not taking it remotely seriously. I was surprised by the didactic black-and-white approach by many posters on what they think businesses should do for them without really thinking about the impact their choices are having on those businesses, so eased in to challenge some of the Total Outrage a little.

I’m glad to say that a small amount of typing on an Internet forum really hasn’t taxed me greatly.

Won’t induce me to buy any of the crap Next sells, though.

How can Next not match the way you like to shop? They offer fantastic delivery and returns plus have a heavy high st presence.

Because shopping to me is much more than that. I don't like browsing in shops that are messy and disorganised. I don't like shops where the staff are rude and disinterested. I also don't like supporting companies that treat their staff like utter shit and expect them to start work at 4am on Boxing Day just so other people can buy cheap shoes.

I'm not particularly interested in free delivery/returns as a I rarely ever buy clothes online - I prefer to try things on in person and pick shops that can order things in for me when I'm there in person, so I'm supporting the high street over the internet as much as possible.

I also don't like their clothes

I also don't like their clothes

Which makes everything you wrote before that irrelevant really

Which makes everything you wrote before that irrelevant really

Why? Even if I did like their clothes, I wouldn't shop there because of how poorly laid out their shops are and how badly they treat their staff. It's the same reason I don't shop in Blacks or Sports Direct or New Look.

I was surprised by the didactic black-and-white approach by many posters on what they think businesses should do for them without really thinking about the impact their choices are having on those businesses,

I'm pretty clear about the impact of my choices ( as one of millions obviously)

I have 4 children and only ever bought a couple of things in Mothercare for example.

You do sound a bit patronising.

I

You do sound a bit patronising.

Apologies, not my intent. As I said, some of the responses seemed surprising in that they didn’t seem to recognise (or want to recognise) the costs to an integrated retailer, even when pointed out to them by people working in the sector. Up there with people saying what retailers needed to do and the idea that all customers are equally attractive and worth keeping to a business.

Weird thread altogether.

I was surprised by the didactic black-and-white approach by many posters on what they think businesses should do for them without really thinking about the impact their choices are having on those businesses,

People aren't thinking about what businesses should do for them though. They are thinking about what businesses such as House of Fraser need to do to stay in business that is they need to offer the same services as other business that sell the same products. I.e. they need to compete.

As I said, some of the responses seemed surprising in that they didn’t seem to recognise (or want to recognise) the costs to an integrated retailer, even when pointed out to them by people working in the sector. Up there with people saying what retailers needed to do and the idea that all customers are equally attractive and worth keeping to a business.

What makes you think that people don't recognise the costs? They aren't expecting House of Fraser to offer better services than other shops that sell things online. They are just saying that if they sell the same products as places such as John Lewis and online retailers they need to provide the same service in order to be competitive.

Weird thread altogether

It really wasn’t weird until you made it so

People aren't thinking about what businesses should do for them though. They are thinking about what businesses such as House of Fraser need to do to stay in business that is they need to offer the same services as other business that sell the same products. I.e. they need to compete.

This

Business is a multidimensional activity that crosses time and space

No! This wins!

@JassyRadlett no worries

No! This wins!

That was priceless

Nice bit of mansplaining there 😂

Ye gods!

So now anyone who doesn't shop as you do is patronising and can't be right because the shops you like are just so much how you like them?

And then you cap all of that off by being so PA that nobody has come back to your thread to mention it?

I know this shit is what MN is for, but really? It's shopping... clothes... and the selfishness of convenience.

curious I was simply pointing out the fact that it all got a bit deep and serious when that really wasn’t what it was about

I don’t think anyone was interested in a lesson in consumerism or shopping habits

It was a simple case of if HOF competitors offer better customer service for the same products then why would you chose HOF

I noticed you didn’t actually acknowledge you were incorrect about the distance selling regulations meaning retailers have to offer a refund whatever the reason for return. Posting incorrect and misleading information as fact on threads isn’t terribly helpful either

.. and the selfishness of convenience.

now you've lost me.

It is a bit weird to talk about the "selfishness of convenience" or that poster don't recognise the costs or understand how things work. It's as if those posters think people are expecting House of Fraser to offer something that no one else offers. They are just expecting the same service that they receive from other department stores such as John Lewis and commenting that if they don't get it they will go elsewhere as will other consumers so they will go out of business. It's no different to stating that if the shop sells products at a higher price than another shop they will choose the shop with the lower prices. Would you tell people that they were selfish or didn't understand how business works if they did that?if not what is the difference?