To think House of Fraser’s refund policy is another nail in their coffin

[Bearbehind]

I bought several expensive and heavy items online with the intention of choosing 1 and taking the others back to my local store for a refund

Turns out you can only exchange or get a credit note in store

If you want your money back you have to post it back at your own cost

Given the weight and value, I’m nearly £30 down for the pleasure.

Surely they can’t afford to piss customers off by refusing to refund in store - what difference does it make to them?

Very expensive lesson learned!

I will never buy from them again

Sorry, meant to add that their lack of any other distinguishing factor is what makes me think being awkward about the returns is a mistake. I can’t see how splitting the online/store businsss is a runner, personally.

Totally agree with you on the lack of a HoF USP - I would imagine there is a heavy weight of repositioning work going on to try to find a model and a brand proposition that’s profitable for them when their current distinguishing features are ‘not John Lewis’ and ‘nearly went under’.

It’s clear the old business model and brand wasn’t working for them. Will be interesting to see what they do next, and whether it works.

It’s obviously for any retailer to make whatever decisions they like, but if those decisions lose them customers then surely they’d question them

Depends on whether the customers are particularly profitable. If the cost of keeping them outweighs what they pay, it makes sense to target others.

You’re right, Jassy. ‘Not John Lewis’ and ‘nearly went under’ are exactly how I perceive them, currently. And they’re sailing dangerously close to ‘another Mike Ashley shit show to actively avoid’!

Depends on whether the customers are particularly profitable. If the cost of keeping them outweighs what they pay, it makes sense to target others.

Who are they targeting though when they sell products online that can be bought from other companies for the same price with better return policies? Can't see that anyone would prefer to buy from them if they knew what policy was and at the moment they are just relying on people's ignorance. So really their target can only be people who don't want to shop online in which case what is the point in selling things online in the first place.

UPS would do it for £18 tracked and insured

point is it we keep giving money away from online sales more stores will close fact

So just to be clear, if I order something online and it doesn’t fit, I shouldn’t return it but should consider it a donation towards keeping HOF solvent? Can I giftaid this donation, if HOF are now a charity?

And people saying “try it on in store and ask the store to order in your size” - which stores still offer that? M&S, John Lewis, H&M, White Stuff, Topshop etc tell you to order off the website if it isn’t in stock. You literally can’t order it to store like you could twenty years ago. At best, you can use click and collect. But that is still an online sale.

Collect plus op, tracked and insured up to 10kg.

Thanks for the alternative method of returning updates - good info to have. 😁

M&S, John Lewis, H&M, White Stuff, Topshop etc tell you to order off the website if it isn’t in stock. You literally can’t order it to store like you could twenty years ago. At best, you can use click and collect. But that is still an online sale.

This

Many stores even have computers / iPads so you can order online from the store

You can’t complain that customers now shop how we’ve been encouraged to do when it’s repercussions then don’t suit

It'll be how the company is set up. Your online purchase is technically with a. Different company to the physical store. You have legal rights to return distance purchased goods for any reason for a full refund and standard postage costs (so if standard postage is £2 you get that back, but if you paid £4.99 for fast delivery you only get the £2 back). You do not have the same statutory rights in a physical store (statutory rights are based around faulty goods and returns,though many stores have goodwill refund policies within 28 days etc.).

It's fairly standard practice. John Lewis do it, M&S do it, a lot of the supermarkets do it.

Who are they targeting though when they sell products online that can be bought from other companies for the same price with better return policies? Can't see that anyone would prefer to buy from them if they knew what policy was and at the moment they are just relying on people's ignorance.

At a guess, I’d imagine it’s people who are happy to return items by post if they buy online.

Don't know about others but John Lewis fully refund online orders if returned in store, including to Waitrose. They don't have the same policy as HoF at all

So just to be clear, if I order something online and it doesn’t fit, I shouldn’t return it but should consider it a donation towards keeping HOF solvent? Can I giftaid this donation, if HOF are now a charity?

That’s quite a leap, isn’t it?

The point is that the more we shop online, the fewer bricks and mortar shops there will be. That’s a natural impact of the change in buying patterns.

If you increasingly buy online, you probably shouldn’t moan at the closure of physical shops.

And over time, the buying/returns model that so many on this thread seem so attached to (over-buy online to choose at home, return to a shop) will probably disappear.

John Lewis do it, M&S do it

Both offer full refunds in store for online orders.

*At a guess, I’d imagine it’s people who are happy to return items by post if they buy online

Even if people are happy to return items by post at a cost why would they not want the option to return items for free to the store too? Why restrict yourself if you don't need to? That is surely the advantage of stores with a shop front versus online retailers.

At a guess, I’d imagine it’s people who are happy to return items by post if they buy online

Even if people are happy to return items by post at a cost why would they not want the option to return items for free to the store too? Why restrict yourself if you don't need to? That is surely the advantage of stores with a shop front versus online retailers.

If you increasingly buy online, you probably shouldn’t moan at the closure of physical shops

I don’t recall anyone on here doing that?

I completely understand that differing buying habits leads to differing structures

It's fairly standard practice. John Lewis do it, M&S do it, a lot of the supermarkets do it

Both M&S and JL offer full refunds instore for items bought online, unless it’s a foodhall or outlet in which case they send the goods back to their warehouse for a refund, at no cost to the customer

If you increasingly buy online, you probably shouldn’t moan at the closure of physical shops.

OP isn't moaning about the closure of a shop though. She is moaning because she thought she was ordering from a physical shop and would be able to take things back to the shop but it turns out that she might has well ordered from an online retailer. In fact if she had done that she probably wouldn't have had to pay to return.

Part of the problem for retailers is the yoke of "fashion" and having to stock the most profit-efficient items at the expense of all else, which eventually leads to a "What's the point ?" moment on a graph of consumer sensibilities.

Returning to House of Fraser ... what's the point of their cookware section, if it's only going to sell the most profitable subset of cookware ? (As we discovered looking for a grapefruit knife). May as well save the petrol and parking and order online. And then forget House of Fraser for cookware. Which is exactly what we did. John Lewis too, since they've in the frame.

If you increasingly buy online, you probably shouldn’t moan at the closure of physical shops.

I was responding to the poster who had caricatured a PP’s post (and point) out of all recognition. It was a general ‘you’, casting no aspersions at anyone.

HoF's click and collect charge (£5, no matter how much you spend IIRC) is batshit as well. I ended up buying what I wanted elsewhere.

Even if people are happy to return items by post at a cost why would they not want the option to return items for free to the store too? Why restrict yourself if you don't need to? That is surely the advantage of stores with a shop front versus online retailers.

For the consumer, sure. For the retailer, they need to decide whether it’s actually advantageous to them, or whether it costs more than it brings in. As a PP who actually works in the sector says, this sort of behaviour is not without cost to shops.

Particularly those retailers who now have very complicated legal setups.

@JassyRadlett absolutely this.

HoF's click and collect charge (£5, no matter how much you spend IIRC) is batshit as well

To be fair, it will go towards the cost of keeping the store open ... if you can avoid paying it (by having an item delivered for less) then you are free to choose, at least ...

I think Wilkos also charge for C&C purchases. And Boots (if they are less than £10).

The emergence of secure lockers is interesting (and not new). especially when you see an Amazon locker installation outside the Midland Eye Centre in Birmingham ....