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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to want to boycott M&S?

429 replies

thatdamnwoman · 04/11/2019 16:40

Marks & Spencer has made its changing rooms unisex because it is striving to be inclusive and it wants everyone to feel comfortable in whichever changing room they want. Which means that a woman like me, who wants to try on clothes in an area where I know I won't encounter men if I step outside the cubicle to see how a garment moves when I walk, is now excluded from M&S.

There's evidence that when facilities are made unisex the number of sexual incidents goes up:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

I think most ordinary men are horrified at the thought of unisex facilities. They're worried that they might cause offence or be mistakenly accused of predatory behaviour. On the other hand the changing rooms will be a magnet for all those men who get a transgressive thrill from going where they shouldn't and being just a few inches away from where a woman's changing her clothing.

I've contacted M&S and they just say they want to be inclusive and if anything happens to anyone in the changing room they'll take appropriate action. But why should anything inappropriate have to happen?

This year we're having guests for four days over Christmas and I would normally be spending at least £200 at M&S. This year I'll shop elsewhere instead. And I won't be buying gifts or clothes or home stuff from them either.

Will anyone join me in a boycott?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
FlyingOink · 04/11/2019 21:07

I think if that happened and you could cite all these people telling m and s that it would happen and them ignoring it you could sue them for eleventy million quid.

So, £170 plus VAT for the camera, £50 for a website hosting, shall I see if "www.mandsvoyeurs.com" is available?

And I could make myself eleventy million quid? Grin

FlyingOink · 04/11/2019 21:08

Just to add, I'd only upload myself. I'm not a voyeur, I'd just like the cash.

Junkmail · 04/11/2019 21:15

It’s really not a big deal. Where I live at least both Next and H&M have had unisex changing rooms forever. I like it because it means my husband can wait right outside the cubicle for me and talk to me rather than being bored milling about the store until I come out.

user12345796 · 04/11/2019 21:15

I am 50 and my mum is 75. We like shopping together. We are not hugely wealthy designer people but we have enough money to treat ourselves to anything we like in M&S without worrying about it. We are probably M&S's target shoppers, and now we are unlikely to go in there as neither of us want to share our changing rooms or shopping experience with men. We want them in their own changing rooms or sat bored on chairs well outside the ladies changing room in the proper time honoured way. I just wonder if M&S has done its research and if it can afford to lose lots of comfortably off middle aged set in their ways women?

Butterisbest · 04/11/2019 21:17

Flyingoink
M&S haven't thought this through at all. I wonder if I ended up on some voyeur porn site through being filmed in a M&S cubicle, whether I could then cite M&S for a breach of GDPR as they have failed to ensure my privacy? I think it's technically possible
That's an excellent point and on the thread in FWR it's been suggested that this point should be incorporated into an email of complaint.
Hands off said, they're my rights and it not for men to give them away. I agree with that, I'll also add to all the women on this thread that don't mind sharing facilities with men. It's not your right to walk all over my boundaries, tell me I'm hysterical or give my rights away either.

Screamqueenz · 04/11/2019 21:21

Butter absolutely!
"It's not your right to walk all over my boundaries, tell me I'm hysterical or give my rights away either."

Butterisbest · 04/11/2019 21:22

Btw op, you are definitely not being unreasonable

churchandstate · 04/11/2019 21:27

I'll also add to all the women on this thread that don't mind sharing facilities with men. It's not your right to walk all over my boundaries, tell me I'm hysterical or give my rights away either.

I’m not sure people are doing that, just by stating that they don’t mind...

FlyingOink · 04/11/2019 21:28

It’s really not a big deal.
Not in the way that school toilets are, no. Women can try on clothes at home, schoolgirls can't nip home to change a pad.

But if M&S lose more money because they've pissed off their core demographic, that's 80,000 jobs at risk.

Do you think it's slightly odd that a company would risk their main market to appease a tiny group of activists? It worries me.
Why do these men have so much influence?

Awaywiththepiskies · 04/11/2019 21:49

Why do these men have so much influence?

I think the answer's in your question.

Men.

fridgepants · 04/11/2019 21:50

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the user's request.

fridgepants · 04/11/2019 21:53

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the user's request.

spiffing · 04/11/2019 22:17

you need to get a grip tbh love...

fridgepants · 04/11/2019 22:18

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the user's request.

ArcheryAnnie · 04/11/2019 22:24

I'm a fat middle-aged woman who is not, and has never been, on the cutting edge of fashion. M&S might not like to think of it this way, but I'm exactly their core customer base. I went to work this morning wearing M&S trousers, M&S knickers, M&S socks, and an M&S scarf. DS was also sporting socks and underwear from M&S, and all his shirts are M&S. I hate clothes shopping, so I go to M&S and get something serviceable and long-lasting when I need it.

Don't piss off your core customer base. Don't indicate to your core customer base that you will always, always put their needs last. That way, the heavy hand of Under Administration lies.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 04/11/2019 22:38

Just to add, I'd only upload myself. I'm not a voyeur, I'd just like the cash.

Maybe if we're working the higly lucrative M and S scam we shouldn't advertise our tactics on AIBU?

But grab that .co.uk if It's free...

Graphista · 04/11/2019 22:39

Op is as has already been pointed out somewhat late to the party as this and other issues around self ID have been discussed at length for some time on the FWR boards but I am still glad more women (and men) are becoming aware of the issues.

M&S are out of my price range and have been for many years plus the last time I could afford to shop there I noticed the quality seriously declining anyway! You charge those prices you better be providing better quality than primark!

But to those of you who are/were until recently customers I would say it would be great if instead of merely withdrawing your custom you contacted them and told them WHY you are withdrawing your custom.

Otherwise they can fool themselves it’s other reasons. If enough people contact them to say they disagree with this policy and informing them they ARE losing custom as a result it may lead to them reversing the policy - well we can but hope!

To those claiming “I don’t get what the problem is doesn’t bother ME” it isn’t just about you.

It’s about all women and girls who feel for whatever reason more vulnerable with such policies, it’s about the FACT that men as a class DO pose a threat to women and girls in certain situations and places. There have been incidents of girls and women being photographed, videoed and assaulted in unisex changing rooms.

Are you really saying you don’t care about girls/women who have previously been victims of harassment/assault?

That you don’t care about disabled girls/women who may need more assistance and be more vulnerable due to their disability?

That you don’t care about girls/women who have beliefs that prohibit sharing such spaces with men?

It’s about ALL girls and women not just those fortunate enough to feel confident and not vulnerable in such a situation.

There are very good reasons why such things have been sex segregated for many years and those reasons have NOT gone away just because we’re more aware of the trans community now.

Re “boycotts don’t last long” it depends on the reasons for them.

There was a thread recently asking which shops posters had stopped shopping in and why and iirc quite a few of those had not returned to shopping in the shops they were boycotting. As a vegetarian I’ve not used body shop for decades due to them selling out their principles, I haven’t shopped in WHSmith for 8 years after I witnessed their staff treat another elderly customer appallingly and I spoke up for her at the time and the staff member was rude to me too! I complained to the manager who was pathetic in dealing with that staff member. Another shop is one I used to work in, and from working there I know they treat their staff dreadfully, particularly on maternity rights, so I won’t shop there now - that’s been over 20 years!

“I’m guessing your teenagers wouldn’t have an issue either” then you guess wrongly! My dd (18) and her women friends strongly object to policies like this, they get enough harassment and “low level” assaults the rest of the time without yet another women’s only space being removed from them.

And our local pool has 3 sections - men, women and unisex and they’re clearly divided.

I think they have definitely shut themselves in the foot here considering that their main demographic is middle aged and older women.

Women who have the life experience to know that while it may not be the case that most men are predators (personally I’m not sure it’s exactly a minority either!) that men are far more likely to be predators than women. Who’s life experience may well also include a serious assault, dv or serious and sustained harassment.

And who are more confident in deciding to vote with their purses!

Mrsgogginsthe3rd · 04/11/2019 22:40

@Hefzi agree with you 100%.

Ereshkigal · 04/11/2019 22:51

So...a woman bra fitter, if the consensus here is that those who have medically transitioned are OK By Us?

Ok in what way? The only issue I have with a MTF trans person performing an intimate service like this is their sex. That doesn't change. Not sure if you're aware that only a few perfect of MTF trans have had genital surgery?

Ereshkigal · 04/11/2019 22:52

Percent not perfect!

Ninkaninus · 04/11/2019 22:53

The consensus here is not any different in respect of a fully transitioned male. This is to do with sex, which does not change.

TwoPupsandaHamster · 04/11/2019 22:58

As long as the cubicles have lockable solid doors I wouldn’t have any problem with this. You are getting changed in your own little room which has a locked door

There's no problem for a man to change in a cubicle with a locked door in the MENS room then is there? Confused

Ginfordinner · 04/11/2019 23:06

M & S in Meadowhall has men's and women's clothing on different floors, so I can't really see this happening.

crosstalk · 04/11/2019 23:50

Can I say I find it odd that the OP hasn't come back? More tired Journo fodder?

Whitleyboy · 04/11/2019 23:55

@ HauntedPinecone

"A caller worked in the bra fitting changing rooms and she said that if a man comes dressed as a woman then they can use those changing rooms. If a man is dressed as a man then they have to use the main changing rooms (now unisex). She said they are respectful towards the men dressed as women who come for bra fittings"

"How does a man dress as a woman? Do you mean by wearing a skirt and heels and lipstick? If I go in wearing jeans, a hoody and no make up am I then dressed as a man?"
You would need to ask the M&S worker or M&S Management what they mean. I just stated what the lingerie dressing room attendant said their policy is.
She only mentioned men dressed as women and men dressed as men. She didn't mention how women were dressed.

Funny that, it almost makes you think they are only concerned with allowing men into women's spaces and not vice versa. Hmmm.