To think veganism is not for children?

[ohhhhlivia]

Yes, I am aware that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy vegan diet at any age. I know that.

However, it is more difficult and easier to get wrong if you want to be vegan. It still is restrictive (even with all of the new stuff coming out) as in you need to tell hosts, check menus in advance etc.

It's a barrier that has to be overcome. I don't understand why you would do that to someone who has no choice in the matter.

Lots of kids go through a fussy phase too, add veganism in and surely you're at a high risk of health problems?

I think what I'm getting at, is that childhood nutrition can be hard enough as it is, so it just feels wrong to make it harder for reasons that do not directly benefit the child.

Wtf

@ohhhhlivia I hope you've realised you've embarrassed yourself

@ohhhhlivia why are you picking and choosing anything negative you can fit to veganism that you want to argue with?
There are plenty of healthy vegans on this thread, never mind the rest of the world.

If a child is malnourished or lacking something, it is due to a lack of something in their diet and that thing is not meat.

For me it is as basic as this- All life should be respected, and to that living sentient being (yes fish included in this, they are sentient and have a memory) their life is something they own, not us. Also there is no humane way to kill a living being who doesn't want to die.

Most vegans want to live a life with no violence and exploitation in it, in fact the extremists are usually the meat eaters that bang on and on about vegans.

Lastly I would look up 'cognitive dissonance if I were you.

@VeganCow

That's bordering on the religious- and I don't mean that as a criticism.

@crispycrisis

Nothing to do in the sixth form common room?

@ohhhhlivia no it isn't, where does religion come into it? I am not the least bit religious

This bit:

"

For me it is as basic as this- All life should be respected, and to that living sentient being (yes fish included in this, they are sentient and have a memory) their life is something they own, not us. Also there is no humane way to kill a living being who doesn't want to die."

That sounds very like some form of spirituality to me.

But all life? That's a bit untenable. We have to kill stuff- vermin, culling, diseases... they have to be killed.

@vegancow

Genuine question...you spoke about sentient life...what about eating oysters? They have no central nervous system. Would you eat them?

@formerbabe the answer is no for me because I never ate them before anyway, have never even tried shellfish.

"vermin, culling, diseases... they have to be killed." I thought we were discussing food here. Nothing needs to be killed so people can eat it.

Crops require disease and vermin control. That means killing things.

I do think that a lot of veganism is more about moral hygiene than anything else- it certainly sounds and feels very religious to an outsider.

the answer is no for me because I never ate them before anyway, have never even tried shellfish

But from a philosophical point of view do you consider them vegan due to the absence of a central nervous system?

I wouldn't eat Oysters. Jury is out on the sentient part and honestly for the sake of eating an Oyster every now and then I wouldn't bother. Also they're great for cleaning up and filtering water so best left there doing a job than to satisfy a second of my appetite.

Every Vegan I personally know agrees with me

But from a philosophical point of view do you consider them vegan due to the absence of a central nervous system? I personally wouldn't eat them, are they sentient, who knows, I think they probably are on some level but that is my own opinion. I also think most vegans avoid them, and as crispy said is it worth it for the odd oyster even if you do like them.

@formerbabe is 'would a vegan eat oysters' your new 'is breast milk vegan'??

I wouldn't eat an oyster no, as personally I wouldn't want to eat an animals flesh regardless of the presence of a central nervous system. But I can't speak for all vegans.

Interesting to me how vegans are called zealots when meat eaters are the ones banging on about how everyone needs to eat meat and dairy.

@ohhhhlivia you're wrong when you say vegans don't understand the reality of rural living. My grandad owned a dairy farm, so believe me I know the realities of dairy and still choose to be vegan.

I don't think you can make assumptions about vegans just because you can't empathise with or understand our point of view, doesn't mean we haven't had similar experiences or have the same knowledge as you.

It does make me laugh that @formerbabe wasn't aware of the supplements recommended for all children (she said on another thread any diet that requires supplements is bad - yet LOVES supplemented highly processed formula) so therefore doesn't provide adequate supplements for her daughter.

She also spends lots of time researching the sentient debate of bivalves and has quoted 'phytoestrogens' at least once in this thread.
Yet doesn't supplement her daughters diet and didn't know ham was a processed meat. I'm begging you @formerbabe please use your time wisely. Educate yourself on your diet of choice I'm sure your family would benefit

@crispycrisis. You seem totally obsessed with me. Once again...fuck off.

As for your ridiculous comments on processed ham...let me explain seeing as it's bothering you so much. I couldn't be arsed before but you brought it up again.

You initially put the 'processed' in front of the word...if all ham is processed, there's no need to do that. Hence I assumed your use of the word processed was to distinguish from ham which is carved straight off the bone and reformed ham in packets.

You are incredibly rude, personal and unpleasant. You seem to love the cute fluffy wuffy animals but have a deep hatred for any human who disagrees with you.

How can I hate you I don't know you? Do you always react so emotionally to posters that pick apart your argument?

I'm genuinely curious as to why you focus on a diet you don't wish to follow when there are gaps in your education and how you feed your own family?

@formerbabe is 'would a vegan eat oysters' your new 'is breast milk vegan'??

It's an interesting philosophical question I think.

It seems to me like vegans don't want to debate. They want total blind agreement.

I certainly don't have any hatred for anyone that chooses to eat meat. I'd go so far as saying I dislike the ridiculous arguments and energy you put into attempting to show a vegan diet for children is inadequate. It's particularly funny when you have revealed how inadequate your own diet is. Hence my repeated plea for you to spend time reading up on recommended supplements for your daughter instead of if an oyster is sentient or if a vegan would choose to let their baby starve to death if absolutely no breastmilk was available.
Just imagine what other sandwiches (other than the ham she solely eats now) you could have offered your own daughter in all the time you've read up on phytoestrogens and if oysters feel pain

I've never heard any argument that justifies what these poor animals have to suffer.

Why do meat eaters like to question vegans so much? Always looking for holes in arguments and gaps in our knowledge and love putting us down. I don’t get it at all. I want to eat food that hasn’t suffered. I want to avoid violence. Why is that seen as a negative thing?

I honestly believe it’s because they see our moral and dietary choices as a dig at them personally. Again I am sure cognitive dissonance plays a part.

It seems to me like vegans don't want to debate. They want total blind agreement

That's not true - I answered your breastfeeding question a few pages back but you never responded. You just seen to like asking very random questions of vegans, it really seems like you want to prove that vegans are hypocrites. If that isn't your intention, I apologise, it's just how I've read your tone & posts.

@VeganCow I read an interesting article the other week basically explaining that most people hate vegans because they know we are right, and they don't have the will power or resolve to live according to their values in the same way vegans do, so they try and undermine us as people to somehow 'prove' that vegans are crazy and therefore being vegan is crazy so they don't have to feel bad about the pain and suffering they cause as they stuff a hog roast in their faces. But obviously that was just one journalists opinion..

I've been veggie my whole life and vegan a few years and I've never understood how people can see causing less pain and suffering to be a bad thing.

@Boshmama I think that is exactly it, spot on.