To think veganism is not for children?

[ohhhhlivia]

Yes, I am aware that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy vegan diet at any age. I know that.

However, it is more difficult and easier to get wrong if you want to be vegan. It still is restrictive (even with all of the new stuff coming out) as in you need to tell hosts, check menus in advance etc.

It's a barrier that has to be overcome. I don't understand why you would do that to someone who has no choice in the matter.

Lots of kids go through a fussy phase too, add veganism in and surely you're at a high risk of health problems?

I think what I'm getting at, is that childhood nutrition can be hard enough as it is, so it just feels wrong to make it harder for reasons that do not directly benefit the child.

@blubelle7
Some parts of your original post sounded quite like you were sneering, as if you are the only scientist /academic that follows peer reviewed work.
As if others are not making the best decision for their families.
If that's not what you meant, that's fine.

Interesting stat: In the UD, 84 percent of people who have adopted vegetarianism or veganism at some point in their lives have gone back to eating meat. A bit less than one in five vegans and vegetarians maintain their diet. All told, two percent of the U.S. population is either vegetarian or vegan.
www.thehealthy.com/food/vegetarians-vegans-go-back-meat/
In my view they revert because their bodies are craving protein and healthy fats, which are often a bit lacking in many vegan diets I've witnessed.

@blubelle7

I think that @poiuyt123’s point is that you're Clearly not dispassionate and unbiased if ‘no one can’t convince you otherwise’ As that sort of very evident bias and entrenchment is hardly conducive to rational scientific inquiry.

@FishCanFly no vegan needs almond milk to have a decent diet would hardly describe it as an exotic fancy either, it's available in all the supermarkets. Unless you view a supermarket as an exotic fancy

In my view they revert because their bodies are craving protein and healthy fats, which are often a bit lacking in many vegan diets I've witnessed.

But the healthiest fats (from nuts, seeds, avocados, olives and so on are vegan).

I’m shocked at how little nutritional knowledge most people have.

Also a vegan diet is actually cheaper than eating meat, believe it or not. Though this only applies if you are cooking your own food, of course.

Whoever put the statement from the NHS earlier in the thread, it's fair to point out that there are a lot of words in their statement that people gloss over, but they're important, thing like (I don't have it in front of me) ... well planned, balanced etc ... it's the whole knowing what that actually means, and as @blubelle7 said, it's essentially combining foods so you have complimentary nutrients so your body isn't peeing out the nutrients you've just consumed because of lack of ability to absorb without these complimentary nutrients right then and there, not later today when I decide to have my glass of orange juice ... or whatever ...
so whilst many people may have an idea of what they're doing, do they really 'know' what they're doing, or just assume they know
I had a colleague who is From India and is an academic dietician, I asked her a few years ago about vegan diets in children and even she said it's too restrictive, she said people don't know enough so if it's done incorrectly, as is common, then it's potentially harmful to the child

@Veterinari
Bingo

no vegan needs almond milk to have a decent diet confused would hardly describe it as an exotic fancy either, it's available in all the supermarkets. Unless you view a supermarket as an exotic fancy

Yes, only because its shipped in from god knows where because there has been a huge rise in demand for it. Relatively it's pretty 'exotic'. You can't make almond milk locally can you?

Also a vegan diet is actually cheaper than eating meat, believe it or not.

I think that depends on what you are eating really doesn't it? If you are just going for straight up lentils and tomatoes then yes it's cheap. But if you are going for avocados, different types of 'milks', quinoa, chia seeds to replace eggs etc then yes its pretty expensive.

We have gone meat free in the week in our house and I have really noticed how much cheaper the weekly shop is. But I can still have eggs, cheese, cream etc so still have lots of opportunity for nutrition and flavour without having to go too exotic and expensive.

@PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind You can make almond milk at home. With....get this. Almonds.

I think the cheapest/easiest way to eat healthily is probably vegetarian - so still having eggs, and dairy.

I was watching a news thing today about 'bluezones' (places with lots of 100+ year olds, Sardegna, Okinawa, and 2 places in Costa Rica and Greece) and they all ate a lot of fish - I'm trying to increase the fish in our diet and cut down red meat to once every couple of weeks.

I am vegetarian and very regularly eat vegan meals. It can be really cheap eating vegan, it's just not expensive if you cook. You don't have to buy things like chia seeds. Even quinoa now you can get from Lidl for cheap, it's still far far cheaper than meat. And tbh, the references to quinoa and chia seeds makes me suspect you've never really eaten vegan much.

Ok, almond milk has to be shipped in but you can have oat milk which doesn't as is a similar alternative, also very available in shops.

Oats are grown in the UK. Also, eating vegetarian vegan doesn't mean compromising on flavour. It is however a very different way of cooking than traditional UK cooking, so not many people are very good at it.

Eating a vegan diet can be inexpensive if you cook from scratch, especially once you have a good store cupboard set up with herbs, spices and other staple ingredients. I prefer oat milk to almond or soya and buy it when it is 3 for £3.

@PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind

I make it in the kitchen, I wouldn't consider it to be exotic

FishCanFly
You do not need to eat fancy food on a vegan diet at all .
I have rarely eaten the things you mentioned .
So a typical day might be ..
porridge with soya milk ( both cheap Aldi )
, maple syrup and a banana .
Snack . Flap jack .
Lunch
Often have tortilla wraps - with yummy fillings . eg Black beans and lime with rocket / salad / spinach .
Tea .
Things like katsu curry , stews, Boliaganse with brown lentils , vegan ( cheaply made ) burgers , and oven chips , pasta with amazing sauces. Tray bakes with sticky rice - lovely .
Followed by dark chocolate a few nuts ( cheap brand - just check ingredients ) and Aldi wine . !!! ( plentiful cheap vegan wine in there )
Expensive .. ??

I make it in the kitchen, I wouldn't consider it to be exotic

Where do the almonds come from?

Oat milk is the nicest 'milk' (or water thickened with plant matter as it should be called) anyway, I really like it in tea.

Also, eating vegetarian vegan doesn't mean compromising on flavour. It is however a very different way of cooking than traditional UK cooking, so not many people are very good at it.

By the very nature of the fact that you have cut out loads foods, you just aren't going to get the depth and range of flavour you get with animal products. It's impossible. Yes with a lot of work and imagination you can make loads of tasty dishes just from plants, but I think you do have to compromise on flavour, just because of the fact that you are working with far less flavours.

Obviously, if you are against killing and consuming animals then you are going to find the thought of consuming them abhorrent, which will probably actually physiologically affect the way you taste things anyway. But from a purely objective point of view, all the herbs and spices in the world can't replace the depth and range of flavour you get from meat and dairy.

I've given up on the original topic- too emotive. Still don't think veganism is for under fives however.

Anyway, can anybody tell me why seafood is excluded from vegan and vegetarian diets? Fish are hardly thinking, feeling creatures.

Never understood that. Fish is one of the healthiest foods on the planet!

@poiuyt123
f I sounded judgemental I do apologise for my tone.

I only meant as with all research one makes weighs up everything and decides what they want to do based on the findings. If one takes issue with the methodology, the sample size or if it is representative of the population etc., they may come to a different outcome despite the recommendations of the paper, we can both read the same paper and do different things and that is okay.

Re: not sounding dispassionate, maybe I am more annoyed truthfully at the way we look at food and diet, and the whole food industry in this country as I am from a much poorer part of the world and this really does affect how I look at these conversations, but that's a completely different topic.

I think fish absolutely do feel.

But I don't really like fish anymore. I sometimes eat fish and chips and have the odd prawn cocktail but otherwise I'm not keen.

@PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind yep, it's clear you don't know how to cook vegan food. I, as a vegetarian, often choose to eat vegan, because vegan meals can be that good. Admittedly it can be hard to find good vegan food in restaurants depending on where you are. You absolutely can get the depth of flavour in meals, it's simply about knowing how. Maybe not the range as there as some flavours specific to meat/dairy, but much fewer than you would expect. I don't see eating vegan food as a compromise, it is often better than meat based and vegetarian food I've eaten. Obviously to some extent this is based on my personal tastes, I never liked steak for example.

@Veterinari

Because of the current literature it is my personal opinion that it is not feasible because of the required doses and that studies are often done on adults whose bodies function differently from infants casting even more doubt on what is considered a healthy supplement in my opinion. The uncertainty is what puts me off.

And of course cow's milk, or as I like to call it, water thickened with sugar, protein, fat and pus

Oat, almond drinks are not actually milk obviously.

OP 'given up on main topic, reiterates her main topic, oh it's so emotive. Gets more goady with fish don't feel pain'

Fish would be excluded from a vegan diet as they are an animal. Also over fishing of the oceans has been catastrophic for the ecosystems....also dolphins and other creatures get caught in nets. I do eat fish but am trying to cut down.