To think veganism is not for children?

[ohhhhlivia]

Yes, I am aware that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy vegan diet at any age. I know that.

However, it is more difficult and easier to get wrong if you want to be vegan. It still is restrictive (even with all of the new stuff coming out) as in you need to tell hosts, check menus in advance etc.

It's a barrier that has to be overcome. I don't understand why you would do that to someone who has no choice in the matter.

Lots of kids go through a fussy phase too, add veganism in and surely you're at a high risk of health problems?

I think what I'm getting at, is that childhood nutrition can be hard enough as it is, so it just feels wrong to make it harder for reasons that do not directly benefit the child.

I'm not a vegan, or even veggie.

But surely people can see that most children on a vegan diet are probably getting a much healthier diet than those fed on ready meals and junk food?

And there are many, many more kids on that kind of diet than there are on a vegan diet.

But surely people can see that most children on a vegan diet are probably getting a much healthier diet than those fed on ready meals and junk food?

There's a middle ground.

If you wish to claim the obesity epidemic is more about meat than the plant based food sugar that is your right, but dietary experts do not appear to agree with you.

What an odd assumption - where have I or anyone else on this thread claimed that? You literally are just making things up

You’re perfectly welcome to come into a thread about veganism make sweeping inaccurate statements about ‘plant based diets’ and then claim you’re technically correct because you’re actually only talking about refined sugar and sugar syrups (so not plant-based diets then ) It seems a bit of a weird derail but if it makes you happy i’ll absolutely agree that sugar contributes to obesity. I wasn’t actually aware that anyone had made an argument to the contrary

Some research suggests that meat consumption contributes to obesity just as much as sugar.

While people are living to a ripe old age, they are often sicker for longer. The pharmaceutical industry (and big meat and dairy) have a lot to do with what dietary advice is put out there. People who switch to a whole food plant based diet have been shown to have reduced cholesterol and blood pressure and even reversed type 2 diabetes and heart disease. Meat and dairy consumed at the current western rates is not good for us.

YABU

Vegans can eat all sorts of things from each food group. Ignorance.

Once again Venterinari you are twisting words.

I made no claim about plant based diets.

I only made a claim about plant based foods, specifically sugar, in specific relation to the obesity epidemic which a different poster brought up.

You have twisted this into pretending I am claiming a meat heavy diet is superior to a plant heavy one which I have at no point suggested.

You have twisted this into me somehow criticising the diets of others when I have made no comment at all about the pros or cons of veganism.

Threads wander, I comment on what interests me, if you are not suggesting that you disagree with the idea sugar is the primary problem with the modern western diet, great, we are in agreement, but I am buggered if I can see why you are taking issue with me rather than various posters practically calling veganism child abuse.

but I am buggered if I can see why you are taking issue with me rather than various posters practically calling veganism child abuse.

If you read the thread you’ll see I have taken issue with those posters. I have a dislike of unfounded sweeping statements to confirm your own biases. You know as well as I do that sugar, corn syrup etc is not representative of plant based foods and yet you’re trying to claim equivalence of those terms to support your inaccurate statements.

At any point you could have said ‘fair enough my statement that plant based foods are a bigger problem than meat in the modern diet was inaccurate, what I actually meant was that sugar is a problem’ but you didn’t.

You may be also be interested to know that excess protein in the body is converted to glucose, so once your protein requirements are met, meat essentially is sugar.

Vegans can eat all sorts of things from each food group. Ignorance.

Only if they are wealthy enough and live somewhere where they have access to such an abudnace of food that they can cut out an awful lot of foods and still thrive. So that's... Actually a very small proportion of the world population.

I don't understand why people keep talking about veganism vs a diet full of processed meat and dairy? Where is the middle ground?

I would imagine that the best and easiest diet for most humans is lots of plants with some animals and animal products thrown in for good measure.

I wasn't aware that cattle had a concept of sexual assault.

They don't. But its nice to see people equating women, both emotionally and intellectually, with cows

Babies and young children on a vegetarian or vegan diet can get the energy and most of the nutrients they need to grow and develop from a well-planned varied and balanced diet.

But they might need specific supplements (such as vitamin B12) in addition to the usual vitamin supplements recommended for all babies. Talk to a health professional for advice.

From the NHS website no less. Well, who'd have thunk it?! According to some desperately ignorant and badly informed posters on here, feeding your children a vegan diet is child abuse. In fact, they'd call SS on you! (No doubt SS would roll their eyes, mouth "Nutter" to their colleagues, and direct the aforementioned desperately ignorant poster to the NHS website.)

I think the thread has probably moved on but I also wondered about wet nursing, is that vegan?

Before we had safe formula rich women paid poor women to breastfeed their babies for them.....is this better or worse than cows milk based formula? How about purchasing breast milk from another women.....must it be altruistic donation to be vegan?

Best answer is probably calf at foot dairy I think but I don’t think any formula is made from that

@RatherBeRiding the key in the above statement is “most”

I.e a vegan diet does not provide all the nutrients a young child needs.......

I think the thread has probably moved on but I also wondered about wet nursing, is that vegan?

If the wet nurse is fully willing I don’t see why not.

@lauriemarlow
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/05/16/parents-raise-children-vegans-should-prosecuted-say-belgian/

Oh fgs, did you miss the NHS and WHO recommendations?

Yes, some nutters are neglectful and don’t feed their children adequately. It’s not unique to vegans.

@Really12345

I've posted this earlier.

Well yes, a meat eating child will get their b12 after an animal has made it in their gut. If it's a caged or shed bound animal they will likely create it through cobalt based feeds, vet shots of b12 (if suspected deficient).
If it is a land grazing animal then they will likely have cobalt/b12 fortified feed anyway due to concerns around soil quality and it's ability to provide the required bacteria.

A vegan child will just eat a vitamin/ b12 tablet.

Same with iodine from cow's milk, again posted earlier.

@ohhhhlivia

It is advice I give to everyone but it is also much easier to get all your required nutrients from a omnivorous diet.

Supplements are a waste if not used properly especially certain minerals and vitamins. I have only bothered with now since moving to this country because I do not always get enough sunlight especially this time of year and the issue of produce being grown in mineral deficient soils and being proven to not be as nutritious as food grown elsewhere.

I think eating heavily processed vegan food is just as bad as eating heavily processed junk food. The two are no different in my book.

I trust there are other academics here who can read the scientific literature and decide for themselves what is the best option for themselves and their families. My research focused on absorption rates based on a variety of factors and accounting for variables with the human body. As such it is based on the average adult (height, weight, health, body chemistry and average reaction rates ignoring certain processes which would undoubtedly impact the result). These were not extrapolated to children and guidelines as in most papers given for children are based only on heuristics and not actual research. So I personally would not put my children in that position, but I trust every adult is well within their rights to make those decisions for themselves and their families. Like I said more power to you, I just wouldn't and noone can convince me otherwise as I think it is irresponsible for children. I am dispassionate to emotion and focus on the most recent and available peer reviewed literature available when making the best decisions for my family. The level of scrutiny you decide to apply is yours and yours alone.

Sorry that was @poiuyt123 not @ohhhhlivia sorry made a mistake typing.

You say you are dispassionate to emotion yet say noone could convince you otherwise. Did you say you were an academic in a scientific field? .

Very good of you to allow that other academics, national and international health boards and agencies are within their rights to be state veganism is ok for children.

@poiuyt123

My goodness what do you want me to say? I think I have disagreed with your view as respectfully as I possibly could.

Everyone is well within their rights to make the choices they feel are best for their family. I would not make the same choice as you.

How on earth is that offensive?

@blubelle7 yes I think you've fairly stated you've made your choice and vegans can make theirs.

I'm not vegan and my kids aren't either, but surely this argument could go both ways.

It may one day be viewed as horrendous that we fed dead animal carcass to our children? If there is a way to get all the nutritional needs into a vegan child I don't see the harm in it, our ancestors would rarely eat meat (I know about how malnourished they were however)

Lots of polarised vegan haters on here!

My favourite is still the one that keeps saying how horrible a vegan diet is, how nobody is vegan because they drank breast milk as a baby, yet all her and her family eat is eggs, pork cooked in lard and ham sandwiches 😶

YANBU and I speak as a long-time vegetarian (not vegan). I used to have a small health-based practice and saw some not-so-healthy kids who were pretty much being strong-armed into a vegan diet by their vegan parents. In my view they were not getting the nourishment they needed for proper development (including brain development) and I advised the parents to introduce meat, eggs and dairy into their diets, with good results on the whole.

Around the same time my then partner's sister in law was running a children's nursery/daycare centre with catering provided. She was not dogmatic about which type of diet was best but tried hard to make sure the catering was healthy and used fresh food. She told me that she came to dread vegan children being enrolled because they were "constantly hungry". Often the parents would send their own food in with the child; in some cases my partner's SIL would cater for them. So it's not just that she didn't know how to make a filling vegan meal.

I myself was vegan for a few years and felt constantly hungry. This was in spite of eating healthy whole foods with plenty of veg, along with healthy fats, and protein from things like legumes. Also I felt constantly chilly. I would not want to subject a child to such a restrictive diet.

I am sure some people do well on a vegan diet, but long-term, most will revert to eating dairy and/or meat/fish. Also one diet does not suit all people.

depends on your income level. If you can afford all those pretty exotic fancies like almond milk - cool. If you have a limited budget then your diet will be very poor.