To think veganism is not for children?

[ohhhhlivia]

Yes, I am aware that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy vegan diet at any age. I know that.

However, it is more difficult and easier to get wrong if you want to be vegan. It still is restrictive (even with all of the new stuff coming out) as in you need to tell hosts, check menus in advance etc.

It's a barrier that has to be overcome. I don't understand why you would do that to someone who has no choice in the matter.

Lots of kids go through a fussy phase too, add veganism in and surely you're at a high risk of health problems?

I think what I'm getting at, is that childhood nutrition can be hard enough as it is, so it just feels wrong to make it harder for reasons that do not directly benefit the child.

It isn't a case of breastmilk from my own breast or a tub of formula. There are donor milk banks so you state two options when I have three options or more if I was to engage a nutritionist with my concerns and understand vegan formula.

I'm glad formula exists. It saves babies every day. I've also vaccinated my child with non vegan vaccines. Medicine and saving children's life is a priority.

However breast is best and if I was in the absolute small number of women that couldn't feed (lots of your factors don't apply to me such as meds) then I'd use donor milk

And what do you think the infant feeding specialist would suggest assuming no allergies? Dairy or non dairy formula?

I don’t think it would be cut and dried. If your preference was strong I’m sure they’d take that into consideration. Clearly non dairy formula is an adequate substitute, otherwise it would let be on offer for those with allergies. The overall health of the baby would impact too.

But all that aside, what is the point of yet more whatabouttery? What are you hoping to achieve here?

@formerbabe
Who knows but surely if it’s dairy milk, then option c would be selected, which is why the poster put it there. What exactly is your point?

If it’s that dairy milk is superior to plant based milks for newborns, then after 50 years of R&D i’d Bloody hope so. I expect that plant based formulations will have caught up in less than another 50years

@ohhhhlivia you've never beard of donor milk? I'm so pleased this thread is educating you in so many ways

Well let's simplify the question for you as you're struggling.

Which of the following two products would be most optimal for a non allergic new born baby? Dairy formula or non dairy formula?

@formerbabe Literally nobody cares about your question. It's not a gotcha. Yes, formula exists which contains a very heavily modified form of animal breastmilk (because giving straight cow breastmilk to newborns is a super no-no, but I'm not surprised if you're unaware of that).

Nobody is disputing NHS guidelines people are just pointing out that some babies who have dairy allergies can and do get their nutrition from soy based formula.

That is it. That is literally the whole point.

Because @ohhhhlivia keeps making blanket statements that "there is no appropriate non dairy milk" and that is clearly not universally true because non dairy formula a) exists and b) is used in certain circumstances.

That's it. There's no scandal here. Calm down. Most of the people you're attacking have already stated that they are breastfeeding mothers, nobody here is feeding plant milk to babies and you need to seriously take your foot off the gas.

And you bragging online about killing pets in front of your kids and saying it's no big deal is really making me feel ill.

I'm checking out of this thread, there is just too much stupidity and moral bankruptcy here.

I'm not struggling @formerbabe you asked how I'd feed my child if I couldn't breastfeed. I've answered.

Which mammal would you choose to feed your child with if no cow or breastmilk is available?

You haven't answered...my question stated that no breastmilk is available
Ah so now we’re in a post apocalyptic world where all other breast milk supplies have been exhausted.

What are the persistent GF posters trying to achieve exactly? Are you simply trying to get vegan posters to admit that in extreme unrealistic situations they’d give their babies dairy milk rather than let them die?
In which case I think the answer is pretty blooming obvious and you should probably think a bit about why you care so much about well-informed parents making choices that have zero impact on you.

@formerbabe see my post above yours - already answered

It gives me lols that half their argument is based on how supplemented a vegan diet is.

Then they are attempting to force vegans to confess to being in a situation to give their newborn super processed highly supplemented cow milk. In a scenario in which breastmilk has vanished off the face of the earth.

All because they are projecting. I think @ohhhhlivia has got some serious guilt about killing animals in front of her children and from her time in a dairy farm. And @formerbabe didn't even know ham was processed and admits it's the only sandwich filling her fussy child will eat

@formerbabe you've not answered?

In strange hypothetical world with no breast or cow milk which mammal would you let your newborn nurse from?

It's really simple...in terms of nutrition, I can order the milks in terms of what I believe is optimal.

1. Mother's breast milk
2. Donor breast milk
3. Dairy formula
4. Non dairy formula

Can you?

In strange hypothetical world with no breast or cow milk which mammal would you let your newborn nurse from?

What's available?

@formerbabe the animal kingdom is your oyster you choose. Maybe pig? Ham flavoured milk perhaps

@crispycrisis

Then I'd have to research what was safest/healthiest.... obviously

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude
Because the amount of bacteria in the soil will impact how much B12 can be made.
Reduction in soil quality (e.g. cobalt) from over farming and general environmental degradation means animals may not be able to make it naturally from the land. (Never mind the animals that are locked in sheds and given feed alone).

it's the only sandwich filling her fussy child will eat

I'd already told you to fuck off with your personal shitty comments.

Considering there's a whole array of food which isn't sandwiches that my DC eats, you really need to stop worrying

@Aquamarine1029

Wrong
"That's why the Department of Health recommends that all children aged 6 months to 5 years are given vitamin supplements containing vitamins A, C and D every day. "

www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/vitamins-for-children/

@crispycrisis I thought donor milk was used for poorly babies in NICU or babies with severe dairy allergies.

Can you seriously just rock up and say 'oh I'm vegan and I can't breastfeed, I just don't agree with dairy so I want some donor milk'?

Wow.

@poiuyt123

Conveniently, you've left out a vital part of the article...

Growing children, especially those who don't eat a varied diet...

Translated, children need supplements who have parents too stupid/ignornant or lazy to feed their children a proper diet. If a child has a proper diet, supplements are completely unnecessary.

Is breast milk considered vegan? Serious question.

@formerbabe I had to have goats milk when I was a baby as I wouldn't tolerate anything else, including breast milk, so there are other options.

@Aquamarine1029

You said it was 'a load of utter shit.' that there was a recommendation that all children should take the state recommended supplement.

I informed you that you were wrong.

A meat eating child or a vegan child may end up with deficiencies in any vitamin - through ignorance, laziness or body processing.

You are also not giving enough recognition to the fact that the best source of Vitamin D is not from food.

@Aquamarine1029
You might want to check your comprehension skills. You’re looking rather stupid with that ‘translation’ Which applies to ALL growing children and implies that all parents of children with a non-varied diet are stupid or lazy. You might want to take a second to consider the implications of your extremely unpleasant and ignorant assertion.

Additionally there’s absolutely no reason why a vegan diet would not be nutritionally varied. Your desire to confirm your own biases is making you look foolish.

Is breast milk considered vegan?

Vegans say so.

Ethically I suppose it is

Biologically, it is clearly an animal product.

Hence why I'm so curious as to whether a human can exist from birth solely on plants? Ie...no animal products including breast milk