To think veganism is not for children?

[ohhhhlivia]

Yes, I am aware that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy vegan diet at any age. I know that.

However, it is more difficult and easier to get wrong if you want to be vegan. It still is restrictive (even with all of the new stuff coming out) as in you need to tell hosts, check menus in advance etc.

It's a barrier that has to be overcome. I don't understand why you would do that to someone who has no choice in the matter.

Lots of kids go through a fussy phase too, add veganism in and surely you're at a high risk of health problems?

I think what I'm getting at, is that childhood nutrition can be hard enough as it is, so it just feels wrong to make it harder for reasons that do not directly benefit the child.

Isn't this entire thread about attacking children's diets?

No you're attacking me personally and saying lies about me.

That's why she only eats one type of food... processed ham sandwiches!!

That's a lie.

I remember @formerbabe attacking my choices to feed my child a vegan diet.
Her child eats a very limited diet. She also insisted that any diet that needs supplements is wrong. Yet she didn't realise that Vit D is recommended for all children and that formula is also heavily supplemented. (Not to mention bread / cereal etc)
She can not hold up her arguments and is continually found bashing vegan diets for children yet isn't educated about how she should be feeding or supplementing her own child's diet.
At the very least if you are bold enough to critique the way someone feeds and raises their children then your own children should eat a perfect diet.

'For no reason to benefit the child'

It does benefit the child

Processed food isn't necessarily a bad thing.

However processed meats are on a carcinogenic list. I think it's wrong to eat these and certainly wrong to give to children

Sorry, no justification for your behaviour.

Not sure why vegans have a go at processed meats when most rely on Quorn, tofu (processed industrially farmed soy beans), TVP meat substitutes, processed non-dairy milks (usually with many added ingredients just to stabilise them), processed egg alternatives, most of which will probably lack half the nutrition of processed meat. And they supplement with artificial vitamins, because we all know that's preferable to the real thing. When I stop seeing the many vegans giving up veganism they've been heavily preaching about for years (why don't ordinary veggies preach?) because their so called healthy children have crumbling stubs of teeth (that they've only just noticed, funny that), I may consider it (read never).

And your justification is basically that she was mean to you on another thread.

She started it...

Grow up.

@crispycrisis I honestly cannot believe that processed meats are on the WHO list of carcinogens along with asbestos and yet the general public are not educated about this.

She wasn't mean to me as she doesn't know anything about me and I don't take it personally?

But her arguments about feeding a child a vegan diet are ridiculous and her own child's diet should be her own priority.

@SonjaMorgan most of the people that feed their children ham are too busy researching about my lack of nutrients apparently as a vegan... they should look closer at their own diets!

Her child eats a very limited diet

Seriously, stop commenting on my DC personally. She doesn't have a "very limited" diet. She also has had zero processed meat this weekend which you seem obsessed with.

@formerbabe I'm glad. Hope she's had her supplements too

@SonjaMorgan

Take it you wear a hasmat suit to Waitrose then?

@aintnothinbutagstring There are meat eaters who also have to supplement. It's not exclusive to veganism, it's exclusive to not knowing enough about your diet or being too lazy to actually do the work.

@ohhhhlivia it is obviously through consumption and not air born.

Well yes, though airborne ham is what we'll see when Crispychops gets some manners

Notice people have ceased to peddle the dangerous idea than soy formula is fine from birth.

It is not fine.

Social services can and will take an interest if you try it unless on medical advice.

Quite horrified that people would be willing to muck about the newborn nutrition for the sake of a few cows.

I have no idea. However, the NHS does not recommend non dairy formula for all babies? Why don't you answer my question as to why you think that is?

Because you answered it yourself. They recommend human breast milk

Ok, so assuming no allergies and no breast milk available, what's the next best choice for a newborn baby?

That's question is for @Ziraphale obviously.

@Ziraphale

"In case of confusion :
Human milk = breastmilk produced by humans for smaller humans
Cow milk = breastmilk produced by cows for smaller cows:

Human breastmilk = mammilian milk technically not vegan by chemical composition.
Cow breastmilk- mammilian milk technically not vegan by composition.
Cow formula- mammalian milk technically not vegan by composition.
Dairy free formula - vegan (although I've read not truly vegan ethically)

@LaurieMarlow
"I don’t think you’ll find a vegan in the land that objects to any animal being fed milk specifically made for it by its own mother"

My comment wasnt about the ethics or morals of being vegan or about milk being specifically consumed by it's own species. It was purely about nutrition. I was trying to make the point that regardless, breastmilk isn't vegan in terms of its chemical compostion because it IS an animal product. Nothing to do with ethics. Mammalian milk is far superior nutrition wise to the growing needs of babies and youmg infants than any formula that is plant-based or synthetically made. Plant based formula is always a last resort because nutritionally for babies milk from mammals is better.

@fascicle
I fully understand veganism thanks. But again this thread isnt about the moral issues and reasoning of what vegans consume. If we are being technical in its classification breastmilk isnt vegan because it IS an animal product by chemical compostion, humans are animals. In the interst of newborns mammilian milk is essential and there is a reason why plant-based formula is not offered over cow milk based formula and is only recommended for an allergy; because it is sub-opitmum nutritionally. Which I think is what this whole damn thread is about.

This thread is funny. The outrage over children eating completely normal things like beans and potatoes and ham sandwiches

I was trying to make the point that regardless, breastmilk isn't vegan in terms of its chemical compostion because it IS an animal product. Nothing to do with ethics.

As veganism is an ethical philosophy, revolvimg around minimising exploitation of animals, your observation about chemical composition is irrelevant.

I don't think anyone is outraged at children eating ham sandwiches, just outraged at people who feed their kids ham sandwiches being outraged at those who feed them vegan food.
It's a really bizarre thread with no real purpose it seems.
What is the relevance of formula in all this? Human breast milk is best for infant humans, we are not designed to drink cows milk. But in the absence of breast milk, dairy formula is the next best alternative that is available, but it is heavily supplemented with additional nutrients.
I would like to see a baby live solely off the milk of a cow (actually I wouldn't because it would probably die)

As veganism is an ethical philosophy, revolvimg around minimising exploitation of animals, your observation about chemical composition is irrelevant

So if it's purely about ethics rather than whether a good item is an animal product, would you eat a wild animal who died a natural death?

Food item not good item

@jamievardyshavingaparty

It may well be an ethical philosophy but it is not what the OP was about. The OP was purely about the physical diet itself with regards to childrens nutrition, so in the interest of children and babies it is 100% relevant to the topic, of which philosophical matters of veganism are not.