To think veganism is not for children?

[ohhhhlivia]

Yes, I am aware that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy vegan diet at any age. I know that.

However, it is more difficult and easier to get wrong if you want to be vegan. It still is restrictive (even with all of the new stuff coming out) as in you need to tell hosts, check menus in advance etc.

It's a barrier that has to be overcome. I don't understand why you would do that to someone who has no choice in the matter.

Lots of kids go through a fussy phase too, add veganism in and surely you're at a high risk of health problems?

I think what I'm getting at, is that childhood nutrition can be hard enough as it is, so it just feels wrong to make it harder for reasons that do not directly benefit the child.

YANBU. I’m surprised people raise their children as vegan - from what I have read I thought it was fairly agreed upon within the medical community that it’s not good for children. Socially I agree it’s very unfair too.

so in the interest of children and babies it is 100% relevant to the topic, of which philosophical matters of veganism are not.

Veganism has no objection to breastmilk feeding the species it was designed to feed.

Breast milk is a perfectly acceptable part of a vegan diet.

Beyond that, it’s pointless semantics.

@Clownfish123

The relevance of formula in all of this is that after breastmilk, formula made from milk is the next best thing. And if a vegan who couldnt breastfeed opted for a vegan formula over cow milk formula for nutritional reasons (or ethical reasons in my opinion) it would be a stupid thing to do as plant based formula is suboptimal nutritionally.

"I would like to see a baby live solely off the milk of a cow (actually I wouldn't because it would probably die)"

What do you think people did years ago who didnt live in communes or had breastfeeding family and friends to help them??? Anecdotally my dear late gran who used to sleep in a chest of drawers had only cow milk (not formula) till she was 4 months old and she lived till 84 so, there you go. At least one person has survived.

Veganism has no objection to breastmilk feeding the species it was designed to feed

Breast milk is a perfectly acceptable part of a vegan diet

Yes ethically but regardless of that, it's an animal product.

Yes ethically but regardless of that, it's an animal product.

Why the pointless semantics?

Breastmilk is an acceptable (indeed desirable) vegan food.

Once more for the hard of thinking on here ...

Vegans have no problem with animal products being consumed by the young of species who produce them.

Ok let's recommend people do that then? It would be far cheaper for everyone just to feed bog standard full fat milk than all this expensive formula nonsense. Yeah no-one does that because it is unbelievably unhealthy.
Breast milk is completely irrelevant on a thread about vegans restricting their childrens diets as there isn't a sane vegan in the world who objects to feeding babies human breast milk.

So if it's purely about ethics rather than whether a good item is an animal product, would you eat a wild animal who died a natural death?

I wouldn't because I was brought up vegan and the idea of eating that is about as revolting to me as eating your very own pet cat or dog is to you.

However, ime, if you go on any vegan forum for long enough, you will find a fair few people who went vegan as adults because of their philosophical issues with farming, who would eat meat in that situation.

Others wouldn't, because they say that is still commodifying animals.

It may well be an ethical philosophy but it is not what the OP was about. The OP was purely about the physical diet itself with regards to childrens nutrition, so in the interest of children and babies it is 100% relevant to the topic, of which philosophical matters of veganism are not.

Er. No. Doesn't work. You are making up your own definition of veganism, which in turn changes what the physical diet actually is. Veganism is a philosophical position. You can go and have a bunfight about formula if you want, but that's your choice.

I think this is actually called the strawman logical fallacy, come to think of it.

Vegans have no problem with animal products being consumed by the young of species who produce them

Yes we know but as you quoted above, breast milk is an animal food.

That's all we were saying.

Hahahahaha at OP not understanding that carcinogens in food are a problem when eating that food, not just being in the same room as the food

And as for nutrition expert formerbabe not knowing that ham is a processed meat...really, some people should do their research before mashing away at the keys on their keyboard.

It is not "better" to raise your child on a heavily processed meat filled diet compared with a varied vegan diet, like some are saying here. Parents have the choice to raise their kids vegan and that is a good thing imo.

That's all we were saying.

But what is the point of saying that?

It’s an animal food completely compatible with veganism.

Are you denying that or are you just pointlessly nit picking for the sake of derailing the thread?

It is not "better" to raise your child on a heavily processed meat filled diet compared with a varied vegan diet

Because there's no middle way?!

As for the ham/processed ham comment. If all ham is processed, no need to put processed in front of it is there?

And there's a world of difference between ham carved off the bone and reformed ham in a packet.

@formerbabe would like us all to concede some sort of defeat because vegan children can't survive on plants from birth. She insists that breastmilk is an animal product therefore no child can be vegan.

If we all agree that I think she may then ask

'What happens if you're stranded on a dessert island' 😂

Done properly, with informed sensible parents, a vegan diet is a perfectly healthy choice

The thing is not many Vegan parents are well informed about raising a vegan from birth, and will feed them what an adult would eat, thinking that’s all a child needs.

I’ve read some horrible stories about giving babies plant based milk like the kind you find in supermarkets thinking it’s a good replacement for pricier plant based infant formula specifically made for vegan raised babies.

I think the first four years a very critical and children need a varied diet. And not just plant based with a heavy dose of supplements.

The thing is not many Vegan parents are well informed about raising a vegan from birth, and will feed them what an adult would eat, thinking that’s all a child needs.

Have you any actual evidence for that beyond anecdata?

It’s an animal food completely compatible with veganism.

Yes I think it was brought up in relation to the discussion about whether a human being could survive solely on plants from birth. Ie...zero animal products including breast milk

The thing is not many Vegan parents are well informed about raising a vegan from birth, and will feed them what an adult would eat, thinking that’s all a child needs.

You can say that about any diet though. It's not the diet itself that's the problem - it's the knowledge and effort of the parents that leads it to be a poor choice.

Same as a parent who weans their kid on Maccies - nothing wrong with the odd McNugget, everything wrong with the parent who thinks 6 happy meals a week is ok.

LaurieMarlow personally, I class that type of remark in the same bracket as I did when teenage boys came up to me in the cafeteria to enquire whether I put sausages (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) in my mouth or whether I "swallowed or spat".

It's tiresome and it's not an insightful comeback. It may impress your mates, but they're impressed when you belch.

It seems some people don't understand that a breastfeeding mother is willingly giving their breast milk to their child. Whereas mothers from other species are not handing over their breast milk to us, it is taken.

All this forced whataboutery is so annoying.

@formerbabe A varied vegan diet is as healthy as a varied meat based diet. Also, your argument and some others is based on the notion that a poor but meat filled diet is better than a nutritious vegan one - that's why I'm addressing it.

I said processed meat not processed ham. It was you who argued ham was not processed. 🙄

Just an intrusion into the whole formula waffle - people going on about quorn etc. You do realize that vegans and vegetarians also (sometimes solely) get protein from beans and nuts? That those are neither unhealthy nor processed (as in altered)?

And as to the person a few pages back who said they were obese and anemic due to being raised veggie - no, it’s because your mum was a crap cook and had food issues (from what you say). My mum was a meat-cooking crap cook without food issues and I’m neither obese nor anemic (23 years meat-eating followed by 33 vegetarian with very little dairy).

@Crazyoldmaurice

I suggest you go back and read the op 😎

Many many meat eating parents don't know the first thing about nutrition or feeding their kids a varied diet. Yet thats ok apparently

Ritacornershop

Jains are lacto vegetarian not vegans. So they haven’t been vegan for thousands of years. It also explains why DS’s Jain friends had cream cheese bagels at their birthday party.

Hahahahaha @Treesthemovie not understanding subtlety...

Lots of stuff causes cancer. Some of higher risk than others.

Trust me, asbestos is a far greater risk to your health than a ham sandwich.