To feel totally out of my depth with ds2 - this isn't normal is it?

[hostagemum]

Ok so my username is a bit OTT but it's how I'm starting to feel. I keep having these big shouting matches with him and they get us nowhere and I know I need to stop it but I feel like he's a fucking nightmare. He's 10 btw.

Today he was up at about 8am and had 2 hours of gaming. Then I made him do something else, as per the rules. All he wants to do is 'concerts' which involves him loudly singing along to backing tracks of his favourite singer. He likes to do this in the sitting room and will insist on all lights off and the curtains drawn, so we're in the dark. It's fucking horrendous and writing it down I'm embarrassed to admit it.

To be fair, he has got better about coming out - a year or two ago he would refuse days out or tantrum first, but now he pretty much accepts they happen (and enjoys them - always has once out tbf) but we can't be out all the time, but if in this is what he insists on doing. Very little interest in anything else - even watching normal tv/a film.

I want to go out now, but have to wait for the fucking concert to end. I feel like smashing the fucking speaker.

It just feels out of control and I don't know what to do. He's sooo stubborn. All reports from school and friends' parents are that he's lovely and his behaviour is perfect. At ex's he does very little other than screen -pretty much unlimited, though ds1 tells me ex has been better about making sure they go out at least once a day.

I just feel he should be able to be doing something that doesn't dominate the whole household at least some of the time. I don't know how I got to this or how to get out of it. Help!

It does sound really tough. Does he have his own room where he can go and sing?

I want to go out now, but have to wait for the fucking concert to end.

Why are you waiting? Tell him you are leaving now and if he kicks off he will lose his singing machine for a week. You can't allow him to control the entire household.

Is he a good singer OP? Is he in a rock group/band/choir etc? To be honest this sounds like a passion that could be channelled into something good.

He's NT I assume?

Is it half term where you are? If not, two hours of screen time before school would be outrageous (but I assume you knew that).

DS is 9 and if he has more than about 45 minutes of gaming in one go he's unbearable afterwards. YMMV but I'd think that's a big part of the problem.

He's not the only person in the house, he doesn't get to tell you what to do!

Won't go in his room! There's a playroom next door but he won't go in there either! He is good (I think) and goes to drama and dance classes. This is why I initially encouraged it but it just feels excessive now. And it's the refusal to accept 'that's enough for now' that drives me mad.

I know it sounds silly but it's not as simple as 'right we're going out,' as he will scream and cry and I end up shouting. I know something needs to change. I think the two households doesn't help as it seems so much harder to cement routines.

Fuck me, tell him to turn it off and put his shoes on.

He can do concerts in his own room. Ridiculous for any one family member to dominate shared space like that.

I agree with channelling it. Can you get him one of those music maker programmes for the computer, you know the ones where you can put headphones in and play about with a synth, editing? Can he join a choir, take music lessons?

Sitting in a darkened room listening to the tuneless warbling of the average ten year old would have me clawing out my eyeballs

Sorry Op, but “ I want to go out now, but have to wait for the fucking concert to end. I feel like smashing the fucking speaker.” did make me laugh. Sounds horrendous!!

No advice but to say I don’t think you’d be alone in how you’re feeling so don’t feel bad!

There's no need for a child his age to scream and cry when he isn't getting his own way like that. I would physically remove the singing machine into the playroom. Or go into the playroom yourself. Are you really sitting through every concert, like a captive audience? Take away the audience and he'll become more amenable I'm sure. Or else set a timer for each concert, when the timer goes off, it's time to do something else, any screaming will result in no screen time. Is he definitely NT?

Move the speaker into another room and ignore him when he kicks off. That would drive me fucking mental.

No way I could put up with that. Definitely move it to a different room and let him scream if he must. He will give up without the audience I am sure. You need to remember your in charge here. He's got you wrapped around his finger. Goodluck OP

Flick the fuse switch off, cut the power

You have got to stop all the shouting immediately. How can your son be expected to have control over his emotions when you have none yourself? It appears that your child is the one in complete control over what goes on in the home, and that's just ridiculous. It's time to take the power back, make rules and enforce them.

When you say ‘not normal’ do you mean you suspect special needs of some description?

Because it isn’t normal that you’re allowing a ten year old to not only dominate the living room but also everyone else’s time because you fear a tantrum.

IMO he sounds completely over-indulged. You need to start reining this back, he will absolutely kick off but you’ll just have to weather the storm. He’s ten now, not a pre-schooler.

Sometimes kids need to see their parents lose their temper because of their behaviour.

Do you have a kitchen timer or similar? I would say "we're going to have XX minutes of singing then go out", set the timer and put it somewhere he can see it. Remind him about 5 minutes beforehand that when the timer is done you're going out. Do you have to be in the room when he's singing? If it was me I'd leave him to it and maybe have a chat with your other son in the kitchen or your bedroom. A timer would also work well for gaming, I'd probably let him have shorter periods more often eg half an hour at a time spread over the day so that he's got something to look forward to or be bribed with when you need him to do something.
I also agree with other posters about channeling his passion. Are there any singing groups or music lessons he could join?

Why are you letting a 10 year old rule the roost. If we're going out I give my son a count down, eg. Half an hour time to get dressed, 20 minutes time to get washed, 10 minutes finish what you're doing. And then we leave when I want to, not my 10 year old.

And as for the concerts, I'd be moving that to his room and if he stropped about it, then he cant have them.

Don’t be afraid to let him scream and shout. Set clear boundaries “I’m really looking forward to your concert but we are going out at 12 so you it needs to be over by 11.30!” If he screams and shouts leave the room and take the Karaoke machine with you. You are in charge not him, no need to shot your self just stay calm and stick to the boundaries set.

Is he making sure you'll be single forever? I'm joking (probably)!

Ly you can put boundaries in and only you can stop yourself from shouting. I'm not saying it's easy but you can do it.

Tell him he's got 15 minutes then after that time turn it off. If he throws a temper tantrum tell him if he keeps it up he won't be getting it back tomorrow.

When he's in bed, put it in the play room. Tell him that's where it lives. If he has it in the living room, unplug it and plug it in in the playroom. If he has a temper tantrum tell him if he keeps it up he won't get it back for the rest of the day. Repeat.

If you can feel yourself losing it, leave the room and calm down.

I not at all suggesting it's easy, but if you don't regulate your emotions and anger around him, why the hell would he regulate his?

I went out (briefly) with a single dad whose 8 year old daughter would insist on performing the whole of 'The Lion King' for us every time I was round.

She has, apparently, grown up into a lovely, perfectly normal girl, but that relationship was killed stone dead almost at the beginning. I still can't hear 'Hakuna Matata' without shuddering.

I think you may feel slightly guilty about being a single parent and therefore being more indulgent that you would otherwise be. I understand, I've been there. But you need to say no and mean it.

I had one that did concerts too, sometimes alone and sometimes with others, all year round. In the garden as well.

He still does concerts and he's 40 :-) - doesn't live with me of course, which is something, bless him.

I wish you a long and happy life, hostagemum.

Why are you putting up with 'he won't go in the other room'? Set the rules - no concerts in the sitting room. Let him scream about it but don't give in and don't shout back.

You sound exhausted and I really feel for you but I think you're trying to give yourself an 'out' by blaming it on two households. A ten year old really can't 'insist' on drawing the curtains, lights off etc

Set the rules and stick to them. Give meaningful appropriate consequences when needed.
I would:

• Set definite times for gaming and give countdowns to time coming to an end. Any argument, gaming equipment is taken away and the next day he's only provided with reading books, colouring equipment etc.
• Give a definite place for his kareoke. E.g only in bedroom or playroom. And let him know that he can choose one song to perform for you at a given time (assuming he likes you to be an audience which is why it's done in the sitting room?) Any argument about this and he doesn't get the karaoke machine/ whatever he uses to play music on.
• Give countdowns to going out time (e.g we're going out in half and hour, we're going out in ten minutes, we'll be leaving in 5 - go and get shoes/ coat and go to the toilet.
• let him tantrum and do not engage. I know it's hard but it will get you nowhere. Keep your voice low and just repeat the facts. "You are not to play concerts in the sitting room for the reasons we discussed... You may play in your bedroom... play in your bedroom and you can give me one song at 1 o'clock... If you continue to ignore the rules the karaoke machine will be put away until you agree to use it only in your room". You just have to block his reaction mentally and remain calm. Take yourself away for 5 deep breaths if you need to. Yes he may have a tantrum but you will not engage with it at all - you just have to ride it out. If rules and consequences are consistent he will know you are not going to relent. It may not completely stop the tantrums but it means that you are still always in control as ultimately your rules and consequences still stand.

Do not forget lots of positive praise. (It's so easy to focus on the negative). Recognise every time he does do as he's asked. 10 is definitely not too old for a behaviour chart. Think of all the things you need/ want him to do (be specific). Make a chart and he can earn a point each time he achieves one thing.

1. turn off gaming when asked (but you must give time warnings for this - he cant just be expected to turn off as soon as you randomly say)
2. Play concerts in playroom
3. Put coat and shoes on when asked to to go out (All should be positive goals - ie the behaviour you want, don't go with 'Don't play concerts in the sitting room')

Agree an award for reaching x amount of points (an extra hour gaming? A 20 minute concert in the living room? Stay up half an hour later on Friday?) Something that he will want to aim for and that you are happy to give. Try to stay away from buying prizes/ sweets.

Dealing with challenging behaviour is tough and draining. It's much easier when you are consistent and you know what you are going to do every time he pushes it. You must speak to him about rules and consequenes before when he is calm, then all you have to do is put them into action when the need arises.

Good luck

Even if he is Neurotypical, you might find some of the advice for managing autistic anxiety useful (worth Googling) - e.g. telling him the plan for the day at the start of the day; giving him small choices (e.g. "we need to go in 10 minutes: do you want to use those 10 minutes to have a snack or to finish off your concert?" and then put a timer on for the 10 minutes - ideally visual so he can see it count down). If you Google the PDA society you'll find some other tips for managing rigidity/anxiety that might be worth a try.

I would also move the concert to the play room: but tell him it's happening and give him choices about how to do it (e.g. where in the room should it be? How should we set it up?) Give him time to adjust to the idea before you actually do it. Maybe one weekend while he's at your ex's? You could try to do something else in the room (e.g. one of those cheap battery operated disco lights) to make it a bit special for him when he gets back?

Personally I wouldn't be taking the concerts away altogether, as he seems to be using them to self-regulate and he may need to do that if he's keeping up a bit of a facade at school and friends' houses. But it needs to not be at the expense of doing things you need to do as a family (and things you need to do for yourself). The family has multiple members, and everybody needs to get their needs met. It sounds like concerts are one of his needs, but he's old enough to understand that you have needs too, and to help you problem-solve to find ways that you can all be happy. He sounds quite anxious/controlling, so I'd try to give him as much input into that process as possible so he doesn't feel out of control - but also takes some responsibility for keeping the whole family happy (which should actually do wonders for his self-esteem longer term, and help him feel more grown up that he is trusted to help solve these problems/make these decisions in a team with you and other family members).

The rigidity of the obscure routine, obsession with doing it and going bonkers if told to stop sounds very much like autism to me.

My son has autism, but was diagnosed very young and we have so many strategies going on that we are all pretty happy. Friend’s son was diagnosed much later and they have not made any provision for his condition, and he behaves almost exactly the same way as your son - it’s singing too, almost always the same few songs. Very loud, very obnoxious, everyone has to focus and listen otherwise he loses it. He hasn’t been taught how to understand other people’s wants and needs or how to cooperate with anyone else.

If your son does or doesn’t have autism, it’s still the same principle. He needs to understand that he isn’t the centre of the universe and that will be a long and in-depth process. What’s he like everywhere else?

I have a better success with leaving the house without arguments if I tell them in advance. Just ‘after lunch we’ll go out to x’. Or even give a choice of going to x or y.

I wouldn’t let them take over the main reception room though when there’s a playroom and a bedroom.

You have left it late to teach him acceptable behaviour. No child over 3 (or 4 at a push) should have tantrums like that, except some cases of additional needs. He needs to unlearn this behaviour. You need to learn to be in control too and to do it without having to shout all the time. Teach him acceptable behaviour and be consistent in your expectations.

Do you have younger children? It would be awful for them to copy his behaviour. Sort it out before it’s too late. Good luck.