To feel totally out of my depth with ds2 - this isn't normal is it?

[hostagemum]

Ok so my username is a bit OTT but it's how I'm starting to feel. I keep having these big shouting matches with him and they get us nowhere and I know I need to stop it but I feel like he's a fucking nightmare. He's 10 btw.

Today he was up at about 8am and had 2 hours of gaming. Then I made him do something else, as per the rules. All he wants to do is 'concerts' which involves him loudly singing along to backing tracks of his favourite singer. He likes to do this in the sitting room and will insist on all lights off and the curtains drawn, so we're in the dark. It's fucking horrendous and writing it down I'm embarrassed to admit it.

To be fair, he has got better about coming out - a year or two ago he would refuse days out or tantrum first, but now he pretty much accepts they happen (and enjoys them - always has once out tbf) but we can't be out all the time, but if in this is what he insists on doing. Very little interest in anything else - even watching normal tv/a film.

I want to go out now, but have to wait for the fucking concert to end. I feel like smashing the fucking speaker.

It just feels out of control and I don't know what to do. He's sooo stubborn. All reports from school and friends' parents are that he's lovely and his behaviour is perfect. At ex's he does very little other than screen -pretty much unlimited, though ds1 tells me ex has been better about making sure they go out at least once a day.

I just feel he should be able to be doing something that doesn't dominate the whole household at least some of the time. I don't know how I got to this or how to get out of it. Help!

What Podemos said!

Am I the only wondering if he is making you 'pay' for stopping screen time by forcing you to endure his 'concerts' in darkness? Children are brighter than they seem, so I have learnt. My dd used to play my most hated music at full volume once screen time was over, start arguments and pull all sorts of stunts, and this was her resentment of end of screen time playing out.

I wouldn't indulge him any longer. All concerts are to be in the playroom. You need advance warning of the next showing, and you need to agree the time they finish. Then when you are watching you can enjoy it, and praise him all the while knowing it will soon come to an end.

I would also be signing him up to more music based activities so he can enjoy his passion outside of the home.

No child of ten should be holding you hostage op. No way. Foot down, and boundaries in place.

As a mother of 2 children with ASD and several obsessions I do feel your pain but he obviously feels comfortable and happy whilst singing/performing. You do need to put your foot down a little, don’t stop him doing what he loves but set times to when he can do it. In our house Saturday mornings I allow my dc to do what they wish (one will be glued to electronics, the other is glued to diamond painting which is her obsession at the moment) but I prefer warn them that after lunch we are going out and they know they have to put down what they are doing and come out, it’s not a choice it’s what I ask of them, sometimes they complain but once we are out all is good.

I find a small change helps here:

instead of saying "we are going out now" say "we are going out in 20 minutes" and set kitchen timer/alarm.

In the beginning maybe also tell him when it is 10 minutes more.

This worked with my boys.

Also helped going over expectations for the day at breakfast (eg : do what you like in the morning but after lunch we are going to Aunt Sally)

They get really engrossed in things.

I think the concerts sound sweet, really

Could he have a vocal booth in his room as a Christmas present? If he's good it would be great to practice and channel his energy - but that doesn't mean you all have to Listen to it dominating the whole house!! They can be done quite easily by a handyman.

Another one with autistic children here. Your son's behaviour sounds very familiar. Anyone with kids with SNs will know it's not just as simple as 'putting your foot down'...

Take away the audience and he'll become more amenable I'm sure.
I suspect this too.

Put your foot down. He's ten, for heaven's sake.

FiveHoursSleep, I apologise, that's a cringemaking x-post I made with you!

I was assuming he was NT as the OP hasn't said otherwise, but I obviously take your point...!

If this has turned into an unhealthy obsession then maybe break the singing machine when he isn’t around and don’t replace it. I agree it’s not normal to control an entire house like this and if he has siblings it will definitely be damaging their self-esteem to have to put everything on hold for him

Pick the speaker up and move it into his room. If he shouts about it, give him 1 warning and tell him that if he shouts again then the machine is gone for 3 days.
If he shouts, remove the speaker. Bring it back out 3 days later, and put it in his room. If he complains give him 1 warning and tell him the machine will be gone for 3 days. Rinse and repeat.

It sounds like you've allowed him to rule the roost, and now you can't put boundaries in place because he has a tantrum. That's what happens when you don't say no. So now you will have an horrendous few weeks whilst you lay down the rules, but just get through it.

Don't shout. He gets one warning and then you remove the speaker. Then just walk away. If you need too, go into the bathroom and lock the door. Let him shout himself out to a locked door. Always talk to him after and explain why he lost his speaker, and why you wouldn't engage with him whilst he shouted. But just walk away during the tantrum. Don't say anything back.

I wouldn't engage in shouting with him. Clear boundaries needed. No ten year old should have that much control in a house.

Strip it right back.

How do you get to the point where he's in the lounge performing in the darkness despite you not wanting that?

Work back to the point he does as he pleases and that's the point at which you need to learn to calmly change the status quo.

So if the speaker is always in lounge so he goes there. Place it elsewhere.
If you say no and he comes in anyway - how will you deal with that.
If you want curtains open and he shuts them anyway - how will you deal with that?

My ds has autism too. Sometimes in order to break his obsession with doing the same things the same way I needed to break the ability for him to do so.

Eg. If there are no curtains in the lounge he can't shut them!

Everything that @theWarOnPeace says- I am autistic, I have two autistic children and have extensively researched autism. I suggest you call the National Autistic Society helpline for advice on seeking a diagnosis.

It sounds very much like your son is trying to control all sensory input, by having the curtains shut, a captive audience (therefore absolute quiet) and only his own voice to concentrate on, he is calming himself and has found it so effective that he is seeking these concerts as a way to delay going out, or to prevent being expected to interact/ do anything else.

I would say that a large proportion of autistic children become overwhelmed by noise, well other people’s noise, their noise is a useful way to drown out noise that is overwhelming him- we call this vocally stimming- this can take the form of screaming, making odd noises, humming or singing. By stopping your son from calming himself (his concerts) then he becomes more and more overwhelmed- leading to his shouting and screaming.

Autistic children live in a world where they feel very out of control, therefore they will seek to control other areas of their life- siblings, parents, activities, food and going out are all areas where children will seek to control. They don’t do this because of your parenting, or because they are manipulative, they do it because the world is a scary and overwhelming place.

It is incredibly difficult living with an autistic child who has no diagnosis- you may start to assume that there is something wrong with your child! Or that you are a terrible parent. When in fact there is a lot of different factors contributing to why an autistic child has meltdowns, is controlling or lashes out. The best thing you can do is arm yourself with knowledge, ask for a referral, read up on autism, take courses, you will be amazed at how quickly the last ten years suddenly make sense!

Where did OP say he is autistic? Did I miss that?

Not everything is autism. Sometimes it is as simple as saying "no" repeatedly and not giving in to tantrums.

I'm sorry but you need to become the adult in this relationship. The rod you are making for your back is growing by the minute. Once you break the camels back it will become easier but you're enabling the behaviour and making excuses for not addressing it. You do not need to raise your voice - be calm, turn off the noise, move it to the play room, cut the gaming to an hour and take control. Stay calm in the face of his anger and plough on through. Go for long walks, visit a park an feed ducks, go to cinema --- whatever but give him your time. In a month he will be a changed boy.

Where did OP say he is autistic? Did I miss that?

She hasn't: but it's obviously the kind of problem that resonates with lots of parents of autistic kids, so we're suggesting some of the methods we've used in case it is helpful (I mean, it's always possilbe that the OP hasn't tried just "putting her foot down" of course, but it seems quite unlikely really).

Even if he's not autistic, autistic traits are just human traits expressed in a different sensory world - so approaches that work well for autistic kids often work well for Neurotypical kids experiencing similar problems or behaviours. We're a different neurotype, not a separate species...

Preview fail

God I’m sorry but this post has literally made me cry with laughter.

I want to go out now, but have to wait for the fucking concert to end. I feel like smashing the fucking speaker.

I’m dying 😂

@MellowBird85 I'm glad it's not just me

Dc know what they can and can't play with in the liv8ng room. The fact you are putting up with it means you are essentially letting him rule the roost.

No concerts in the liv8ng room. Feel free to sing in the playroom or the bedroom.

'All he wants to do is 'concerts' which involves him loudly singing along to backing tracks of his favourite singer. He likes to do this in the sitting room and will insist on all lights off and the curtains drawn, so we're in the dark. It's fucking horrendous and writing it down I'm embarrassed to admit it...
I want to go out now, but have to wait for the fucking concert to end.'

This is all easy for me to say but:-

You're the parent. He's 10! Don't be intimidated by him- he's 10! Don't let him have the curtains closed when you don't want them closed, or the lights off when you don't want them off. Don't let him play music when and/or where you don't want it played, or sing if you don't want it, or more loudly or for longer than you want it.

Go out when you say it's time to go out.

If he has a tantrum- ignore it. That way he'll learn it doesn't get him anywhere.

If you really can't get anywhere with him, you need to get a referral to child behavioural services or something. But if he's not doing this sort of stuff at your ex's, it sounds like he's taking the piss and running amok at yours- because he can.

Maybe he is autistic - but maybe he’s just an overindulged child who doesn’t like being told no? I’m not sure armchair diagnoses based on two posts are going to be hugely helpful in the short term.

Before you know it, your son will turn into an inarticulate grunting 'bloke' who mumbles to you that he's goin' out with 'is mates.

You will be rewarded one day.

Your post screamed ‘autism’ to me and I think it’s hard to understand why you would live your life around a ten year old’s whims when in reality you are structuring his world to enable him to cope. That’s good parenting. Hopefully you can find some strategies that make life easier for everyone. We had a lot of success with visual timetables (moving on to electronic organisers with increasing age)

I’m not sure that being told to ‘be the parent’ and ‘stop indulging him’ are going to be helpful either if the child is autistic ActualHornist

It’s a post that sounds familiar to those parenting autistic children. Nobody’s said the child is definitely autistic. Just to bear in mind that a ten year old child having screaming fits when interrupted in pursuing a very specific passion could be and that it might be helpful to consider that.
If he is autistic then indulging him won’t help. Structuring things and planning so that he can cope, however, will. Ensuring that his sensory needs are met will also help. As others have said, similar strategies won’t do any harm if he’s neurolotypical.

Nobody’s saying ‘oh, he’s autistic, close the curtains and order supermarket deliveries and prepare to sit there in the dark for the rest of his life enjoying the concert’