AIBU to think it's no wonder some children will grow up to hate their lives.. .

[Spookytoast3]

.... And people should bloody well be more careful about how they speak to children sometimes?

My nephew, DH's sister's son, is ten. I have known him since he was a young toddler,and I have been biting my tongue for exactly that long. He has never had any boundaries, has always been allowed all the sweets, TV and xbox time he wants, is bought whatever he wants (only for SIL to chuck it in the bin weeks later when he loses interest)

BIL and SIL are very preoccupied with their own lives, and left him with PIL all the time, from babyhood. They never took him out anywhere. His first trip to the swimming pool was with DH and I when he was six, and his first trip to the local library (which he lives minutes away from) was with his school.

On top of that, and in my opinion the worst thing, is the language used by SIL and PIL towards him. They would call him "a nightmare" in front of him, "a bad egg," and say things like 'well there's no point in your mummy and daddy trying to do anything with you, you're bad, you're a menace" that sort of thing. SIL resents having to parent, and is very much the spoilt golden child - I think they've set DN up as a child who is "born bad" and is making poor Sils life hard, rather than admitting the truth that BIL and SIL have both shirked their responsibilities

I've seen him come into PILs from school, all excited about something, only to have the excitement squelched out of him by them sniffing and sneering.

DH and I tried our best, we have taken him for many, many days out and overnights, and found him a lovely boy.

Recently however, he is miserable - he stays up until midnight playing his video games, he doesn't want to see his friends any more, and he says he hates his life. I asked if SIL and BIL were going to take him to the GP- no, he's a moan, he's always been the same.

DH and I now have a baby of our own, and I can see the comments starting up again. PIL fell out with me a bit after her birth, as apparently I was "too excited and worked up" and "thought my child was better than everyone else's". Now that she's becoming a (very stubborn!) toddler, they're coming out with the comments. I've been told that DD is going to be "a nightmare" "a tomboy" and "not to expect she'll do anything she's told", they've tried to feed her sweets (hard jellies, a choking hazard) and they huff because I don't make her give them kisses,calling her "a bad girl"

I have been doing the silly "talk through your child" thing - "tell Nana you aren't a bad girl, you're a lovely girl, nobody has to give kisses" but I'm not sure if it's passive aggressive.

I'm just so sad for my nephew, and angry that they're now trying it with DD. I don't mean to sound precious, but that attitude is just not what I want for my child. DH has poor self esteem and low confidence, though it's got a lot better in recent years - but I can see why.

Sorry, not quite sure what my AIBU is- just a rant really, as I don't have anyone else to talk about this to, and don't want to rant too much to DH as it is his family at the end of the day. And I suppose some validation that I'm not some sort of naive snob, which I'm pretty sure they think I am

It was a really sad thread to read. My friends that have had the biggest issues with weight and disordered eating had parents that were hyper critical around appearance. If they are negative about everything it must have an effect on the poor boy so no wonder he is sad.

He is always welcome in our home, we live in the same village as PIL, where he spends much of his time after school and at weekends, so he often pops by. He hasn't so much lately because he's pulled into him self, but as he gets into his teens I've already got a pretty idea of how I can manage it so he'll always know he can come to us.

I'm so incredibly frustrated about the whole thing, and the comments about DD just fill me with rage- probably more so than they should, but I've seen it play out with my nephew, the constant comments. PILs seem incapable of praise, the most they manage are excuses-usually for SIL- if not outright negativity. It's just horrible. In a previous life, I worked a little in the field of linguistics/communication, so perhaps it is something I'm hyper sensitive to, but the amount of negative commentary and the woe-is-everything undertone is like nothing I've ever seen before. You could pick out one or two comments, and it probably doesn't sound like much on a thread like this, but being in a room with them, getting the full effect, is something to behold. DH and I once paid for PIL to have dinner at a particular restaurant that had meaning for them - it wasn't Michelin starred but it wasn't far off- and all they did was moan about the food to anyone who asked, for weeks after. In front of us, too. They are horrendously fussy and picky,and they extend this to their lovely grandchildren too. SIL is an enmeshed chip off the old block

Why do you see your parents in law so often? What would happen if you pulled back?

And yes, it is passive aggressive, but it's also protective. But the problem is that it makes your daughter caught in the middle, which is something she'll feel more and more as she grows up. If my MIL called my child a bad girl for not giving her a kiss, I'd say flatly "She doesn't have to give a kiss to anyone she doesn't want to" and move my daughter out of the way.

There is a small shared family business, which FIL, DH, and FIL's brothers all have a hand in. It is nobody's main job anymore, just a family concern that is really kept going for tradition, but we do see them a bit as a result, once or twice a week normally. We actually have pulled back quite a bit, but they honestly seem to redouble their efforts as a result, as though they have to make the most of the opportunity to take us down a peg or two

Protect your child, even if it means going low contact with PIL. Emotional abuse can be countered with talking therapy, successfully. I hope your nephew one day finds that.
Would the GP or school listen to your concerns? It's difficult when it's not your child, and it wouldn't help if your inlaws realised that you'd talked. Schools can link with counsellors though, away from the home, but presumably your family wouldn't agree to that, as they don't think anything is wrong.
Start telling the PIL straight - show your dd you are standing up for her when they are unkind. Another method is just to stand up and leave every time they do it.

I did go through a depressive teenage stage but then again so did everyone, it seems to be developmental. Children tend to be quite resilient

@Velveteenfruitbowl I don't agree with you that all teenagers go through a 'depressive stage' as part of their development, or with our generalisation that 'children tend to be quite resilient'.

The OP's nephew is being emotionally abused and has been almost from the day he was born. The abusers have now started on the OP's dd and I would suggest she opens her door to her dn while closing it on her in-laws.

The OP's dn will be lucky if he escapes having serious mental health or self-image issues in adulthood and there's no need for her dd to EVER be subjected to negative criticism of ordinary/normal child behaviour.

*your generalisation

You need to contact the NSPCC and also the nephew's school. Tel them what you know of that poor child's home environment. It is abusive.

Pull out all the stops to make sure your DN knows he is loved and cherished in your home. A top tip as the teen years approach is to always have snacks and other food available for him, and make sure his friends feel welcome at your home too.

Keep your child away from your toxic in laws. Even if you and the PILs and ILs have to get together because of the business, surely your child can be kept out of these get togethers.

Could your DH be persuaded to sell his share of the business to the others?

@DonKeyshot really? It does seem to be a clear stage along with the existential crisis and the rebellious stage. So long as it’s not actual depression I’d consider it pretty normal.

Your advice to the OP is perfectly sound but I was just trying to provide some comfort. I doubt this would have a significant long term effect on him. She must be very worried about him, but perhaps she shouldn’t worry so much. This kind of thing happens to a lot of people. Of the people I know I’d say about a third experienced some for of child abuse. We’re not scarred for life. We have good professional careers, we have good friends, we have good relationships. To all intents and purposes we don’t seem any different to the people I know who haven’t said they suffered abuse (obviously I might just not know).

@transformandriseup eh?

I had depression when I was a teenager. I don’t believe there is such thing as depressive stages only someone who is woefully ignorant about MH could say this..
Yes as a teen we can be confused about sexuality, friendships, the future. Depression is an illness not teenage angst. I was abused as a child which I believe led directly to me having mental health problems

@Velveteenfruitbowl
I think a lot of people are majorly fucked up actually and keep it together. Scratch below the surface, say something, which they find triggering and they will fold. This little boy has had shit said to him day in day out from birth. Of course it’s abuse and he’s going to be screwed up. Yes, at 10 it’s normal to be more into playing fortnite with his mates. But if no one pulls him back from that, it will become a major coping strategy and way to escape from the world.

Spooky
My mother was like this. Loved it when I was a real, live dolly. Having had a lot of therapy, I’ve pin pointed her starting to pulling away from me at about 5 months. I would say low contact. However, that could have a big impact on your dn.

I was actually wondering if you could speak to the child directly instead in front of the pils. As in both children eg. “ well I love you dn and think you’re brilliant just the way you are “. Other times, feed it back to them. So you think x child is x, y and z etc.

They most likely aren’t aware that they are even doing it tbh. This is learnt behaviour from when they were children and the pattern is simply continuing, passed to future generations. SIL is exactly the same. They will have treated her and your dh like this. So stopping the the conversation and creating a different dynamic and thought process could be a good one. If they still persist, the pa comments will be good as well.

Well done for wanting to do something. You can break the cycle.

I forgot to say I was majorly depressed as a teen and beyond. I finally got help aged 20/21. It was definitely to do with how I was treated.

I thought I was worthless and remember vividly feeling stupid because I didn’t know how to play with other kids when I was around 3 at a playgroup.

By 5 I truly hated myself. I know this because of a school photo from reception age.

I was expected to be my mummy’s good girl and protector of her emotions so I didn’t know how to interact and engage with other children. I constantly second guessed myself. This resulted in me seeking comfort from the wrong people and very skewed thinking.

I’m only now in my 40’s feeling confident in friendships. It’s taken major illness and years of intense therapy.

@Velveteenfruitbowl Children tend to be quite resilient

Not really. Resilient children tend to be resilient, but not all children are. There are several factors that can mitigate against the kind of emotional neglect that this child is experiencing and help to develop resilience (and the presence of positive, supportive adults is one, so the OP is doing a great job) but without additional factors a child who is being abused or neglected will not just develop resilience by itself.

Also - I had a depressive phase through my teenage years. It was very much connected to my childhood experiences and the parenting I had received (though it wasn't neglectful or abusive). Many teens have depressive phases because they have difficult home lives or childhood experiences, not because it's a normal development stage.

I hate the way people use words like nightmare, cheeky, brat etc to describe kids, it's horrible. It seems like a way of withholding affection and keeping kids in their place. Makes me shudder.

I think a lot of people are majorly fucked up actually and keep it together. Scratch below the surface, say something, which they find triggering and they will fold.

Yes, I agree with this. I've known so many people with emotionally abusive parents and at some point, usually in their adult life, often when they have their own children, things come crashing down on them. They end up with depression and having counselling after years of feeling like they are worthless.

OP, your nephew is being emotionally abused. As others have said, try to spend as much time with him as you can, encourage him, listen to him, tell him he is loved and means the world to you. Let him know you are there for him always. This will hopefully go some way to undo some of the negative thoughts he will be having about himself because of what he is hearing from others. It makes me feel so bad that there are children out there suffering, your nephew is lucky to have you in his life to help him.

Your poor nephew. Agree with pps who say this is emotional abuse and you should take every opportunity you can to praise him and make him feel special and loved. Sounds like you are a fantastic aunt and do lots for him already. But is there an activity you could take him to once a week - something like scouts - where he could develop interests away from his xbox and get another escape from his home life? You sound quite busy so this may be an impractical suggestion.
You also need to directly challenge the negative things PIL say to your dd and keep contact with them low.

Poor kid. This will screw him up for sure and impact future relationships where he'll likely look for the validation and love (possibly in the wrong places) he didn't receive as a child.

Can you and DH challenge each time PILs/SIL says something negative about him? Perhaps if you pull them up on it each time they'll realise how much they do it, or at least it'll mean DN questions in his own mind whether the things they say about him are true.

@Spookytoast3 reading stuff like this breaks my heart. If I were you, I’d be making plans to move away before they fuck your child up the same way they’ve fucked up your husband. I just wouldn’t put up with shit like this directed at my child. Your job is to protect your baby, not facilitate your screwed up PIL. Whose life is more important?

@namechangetheworld why on earth are you letting your toxic bitch of a mother treat your daughter like shit? For gods sake grow a backbone and put a stop to it.

OP cant you be honest with your brother and your PIL,
tell them their constant negativity is harmful, hopefully that will sink in

my dm is like that with me and also with my youngest, and occasionally my dh. i am on the look out for it and have spoken to dd about it, we are not stupid
there is always someone who bears the brunt of her negativity.

I hate the way people use words like nightmare, cheeky, brat etc to describe kids, it's horrible.
I agree about nightmare and brat, although not sure about cheeky - I call my daughter a cheeky monkey if she does something cheeky (not naughty) like sticking out her tongue or pretending to eat someone else's biscuit. Surely it's down to the tone you use as much as the words?

I have seen a lot of parents of toddlers complain to their friends about their childrens behaviour, saying how bad they are, how they have tantrums, etc. as though the kid isnt there. I'm sure the toddler is listening and understanding that mummy thinks they're bad.

You need to stand up for your daughter and your nephew. Every time they make a comment and you’re there make sure you pull them up on it. Both your DD and DN need to know that you will stand up for them and that people aren’t allowed to talk to them like that. I’d honestly have very limited contact with the PIL if they can understand how damaging they are being. And keep an eye on the relationship with DN and his parents/grandparents and please don’t be afraid to call SS if you are concerned about his mental health. They won’t just wade on in and take him but they can offer support (whether the parents want it or not) to ensure that DN is safe and happy. I’ve seen it first hand and it can be invaluable to some children.

bean it may not be as bad as the others but for me, any label you put on a child like that isn't great. They grow up thinking they're the cheeky one so they can get away with being cheeky and so on.