To think the hospital just let him die?

[sadaboutlife]

My uncle was 73.
He was taken into hospital last Thursday with severe stomach pains and vomiting.
They gave him a scan and found out he had a perforated stomach ulcer.
Now they said normal treatment would be a operation but they said they didn't think he would survive the operation so refused to do it.
They gave him antibiotics and fluids and 3 days later told us he was dying.
He died yesterday.
I'm angry.
Why wouldn't they just try the Op?
They knew he would die anyway so why not at least give him a chance to live.
I'm so upset.
This time last week he was watching tele happy and now his gone
I just don't understand

Firstly, I'm sorry for your loss. I know first hand that losing someone so suddenly can be gut wrenching.

In terms of the hospital it likely boils down to money. Operations cost the NHS money. If they felt he wouldn't survive it they wouldn't want to waste it. I'm sorry. x

I'm so sorry. That's incredibly sad and by today's standards a young age to die
Can you ask to speak with someone at the hospital to get more details of his treatment and find out exactly why they didn't operate?

A major operation on a frail patient carries great risk. The interests of the patient will have been considered most carefully.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

So sorry for your loss. I would contact PALS at the hospital and ask for a detailed explanation of why the decision was made not to operate. Hope you get some closure.

So sorry for your loss OP. Definitely contact PALS.

Sorry for your loss . It sounds like they didn’t think he would survive .

I think dying on an operating table opposed to comfortable in a hospital bed . I know which I would prefer

The doctor came in on Sunday night.
He said with ever operation we weigh the pros and cons and in this case there was a 95% chance he wouldn't survive the op and if he did he would have no quality of life.
So we watched him deteriorate and they stopped blood tests,taking his blood pressure.
They just kept him comfortable.
I'm just so sad thinking if they had found the ulcer the last time he was in (4 weeks ago ) he might be alive

Sorry for the loss of your uncle. Having these questions must be so hard too.

Normally it comes down to medical staff (surgeon, an anaesthetist etc) making an objective medical decision based on a patients best interests. They can take the patient and if appropriate, family wishes, in to account, but ultimately doctors are not obliged to provide treatment which they do not feel is in the patients best interests. I can imagine many situations when this would be decided by staff, wishing to prevent additional unnecessary suffering from futile treatment.

Could you make an appointment as a family to discuss with the team?

So you’re not mad that they have (in your head) killed him, you’re mad about how they did it?

I’m so so sorry he died, but you are being irrational here.

Does anyone know how a perforated ulcer killed him?
Sorry if I sound stupid but what exactly happened ?
Would it have been a infection in his body ?

@PotteringAlong I'm upset that a operation could have saved his life.

I want to add I'm in no way bad mouthing the NHS
They are fantastic
I'm just upset that he has passed and just wish we could have tried everything

Honestly if they had found the ulcer 4 weeks ago the outcome would likely have been the same.

I know it's horrible but yes at some point, some people will have to be 'left to die' - it is something I think about a lot as I can't have a GA (with my heart, I'd die before they started operating), so I am horribly aware that any condition requiring a GA is an automatic 'tough luck, put up with it til it kills you' situation.

It is shit at any age, and I wish there were something I could tell you to take comfort from but you'll need to find that for yourself I think.

Your answer is in your statement though, it might have saved his life but it wouldn't have been a good quality if life even if he survived it.

Sorry for your loss

I'm so sorry for your loss.

For a surgeon the hardest decision to make is not to operate.
If he was extremely unwell on admission and they believed the operation or its recovery were very likely to kill him they'd use antibiotics and treat conservatively. If he improved they may have then taken him to theatre.

I can tell you that in many years working in the NHS on the frontline I have never once heard anyone say a patient couldn't have a life saving operation due to funding. The patient's best interest are only ever considered. Sometimes it truly is kinder to let someone pass in relative peace than inflict a painful operation and recovery on them before getting the same result.

I'm truly sorry for your loss

I’m very sorry for your loss.
With such a small chance of surviving the the operation the doctors have a duty of care to patients to do no harm. Weighing it up the operation would most likely have hastened his death or left him with an unacceptable quality of life and that is no way in his best interests.
Good healthcare does not try to save people at all costs and with a tiny chance of survival.
I think most people would rather die comfortably with their loved ones around them than on an operating theatre going through an operation that has no hope of achieving anything realistically.
I do not agree with the above poster saying that it’s about money. It’s about dignity and providing appropriate care.

It may have also been about balancing his pain. Even the most non-invasive surgery is painful afterwards. If it wasn’t likely to improve his condition, they might have been masking his last days harder. There comes a point where the only goal needs to be patient comfort.

I know as I'm upset it's clouding my judgement.
I think when it's your family who you love you would try anything.
I didn't even realise how serious a ulcer was.

Do you know why they gave him such a low chance of survival, and why he was in hospital four weeks ago? They would have explained their reasoning if asked, and will still do so if you contact PALS or the ward manager.

I'm so sorry.

I am not somebody who thinks the nhs should never be criticised but I don't think this is a decision about money, it's about how much suffering it would have caused him to operate and potentially survive only in a state where he would have suffered greatly. But I can't know. Will they talk to you?

I can't know how you feel and do not pretend I do but I lost a family member on an operating table and it is still distressing to think about. I wish they hadn't died like that but I suspect if I had had to watch them deteriorate the way you did with your uncle I would have felt so powerless and would have wanted them to try surgery. It's all so shit.

I'm so sorry for your loss.
I hope someone can answer your question about how a perforated ulcer causes death.
It's natural to search for answers when we lose someone we dearly love.

Doctors can and so take family wishes into account. Did he have anyone in the hospital making decisions for him or was that person passively accepting the doctor’s advice? My 74 yo aunt did have her perforated ulcer treated despite high blood pressure because her son insisted on it and she’s fine now.

So sorry to read this. I hope you are okay.

I think once more time has passed you will see that it was the right decision. You're just hurting too much right now.

Suggest you go to PALS at the hospital and get the exact reasons why he wasn’t treated

@EverdeRose yeah they tried the antibiotics and it looked like he was picking up but then he deteriorated so fast.
I just can't get my head around it.