Why do you obey the law?

[Velveteenfruitbowl]

Something I am reading made me wonder so I want to do a poll. Ignoring situations where the law coincides with your morals (e.g. you think it’s wrong to kill people so you don’t commit murder), why do you follow the law? You can take speed limits for example. Do you not speed because you don’t want to pay a fine or do you actually believe that going a few miles over the speed limit is wrong in some way?

YANBU = I follow the law because it’s the law!

YABU = I only follow the law because I don’t want to be punished.

I drive to the limit as once got pulled over (falsely) and sitting in the back of a cop car is terrible!

I follow the laws that I agree with and discard those that I don't agree with. That doesn't mean I break every law I disagree with but that the fact it is against the law would not stop me.

If I disagree with a law, I usually follow it because I don’t want to incur the consequences of breaking it. But there aren’t that many laws I clearly disagree with.

I believe in right and wrong, and you know it by your gut.
I give no shits for rules and laws, and break them often.
Pretty sure I always end up Chaotic Good

I would lose my job, which TBH is a pretty good incentive to be law abiding

Neither of your choices really works.

In general, I obey the law because our laws have developed to create a fair and safe society. If I don't know why a law exists, it would be arrogant in the extreme to assume there was no good reason.

If there is a law which I seriously believe to be unjust or unsafe, then I might break it.

YANBU & YABU

I obey the laws as part of a social contract that I have with the rest of the people that inhabit the same country as me (and further for international laws).

I recognise that the majority of these laws are so that we can co-exist peacefully and contract business with the best outcomes for the majority of people. Where I feel these laws are arbitrary (speeding) or pointless (illegal to be drunk in a pub) then I am less likely to worry about occasionally breaking them.

Yanbu. I think the laws are there for good reason. So I follow them.

I think there is a certain level of arrogance involved when people claim not to care about laws. Laws are the outcome of an enormously complex process, incorporating history, cultures, religions, individual cases, exceptions, unintended consequences, challenges, reversals, misinterpretations etc. But the aims are fairness, equity, safety and happiness. I would think carefully before deciding a law was something I could disregard.

I murder and rape as many people as I want, which is none

I don’t really give two thoughts to the law, but I don’t regularly break it either, I don’t not do things because they are illegal, I just don’t do them because I don’t want to.

Buttons not working

@ErrolTheDragon that’s what I was getting at. I’d never assume something was good law just because it’s a law, the opposite actually. But likewise that wouldn’t matter to me, I don’t break laws unless I know they aren’t enforced because I don’t think it’s worth the pu ishmebt.

@seaweedandmarchingbands even procedural laws? Or laws which a purely moral (surely it’s not legitimate to legislate your morality into others?) like a ban on elective abortions?

But the aims are fairness, equity, safety and happiness.

This is one of the most naïve things I've read online this week.

I agree with Enb I abide by laws because they create the level playing field. You can’t just decide not to pay taxes or nick someone else’s stuff or drive pissed on the off chance you’ll get caught. People aren’t universally all nice and considerate so there has to be a code of conduct to benchmark against.

This is one of the most naïve things I've read online this week.

Why?

I follow the law while it does coincide with my morals. However I do condone some serious crimes (eg murder) in specific circumstances -

The people that hid Anne Frank were breaking the law. The people that killed her were obeying the law.

says it all really.

I don't go around looking for laws to break. But "the law" isn't a magic spell either.

I'm wary of people who parrot "it's the law" rather than applying some conscience. They tend to be the sort that forget "the law" is only what any particular government of the day decides it is.

@DGRossetti there’s a large and long standing debate about the validity of that statement.

On that note is there anyone here that believes that something that is blatantly immoral is not law? Or do we all believe that if the correct procedures are followed the outcome is valid law even if we find it morally repugnant?

I don't really pay much attention to whether something is law or not, I don't think.

I break the speed limit if it's safe to do so and there's no speed cameras, but at the same time I'll drive at the speed limit if I see a camera because I don't want a fine and more points.

This is one of the most naïve things I've read online this week.
Why?

Because it assumes the noble intentions of law makers, not just today but throughout history.
Lawmakers come from the upper reaches of society and the last thing they want is fairness/equity and to suggest they are their to facilitate happiness when a vast number of laws restrict personal autonomy is just bizarre.

Laws on property, great. Laws on harming others, great. Laws on what we can do with our own bodies that has zero effect on the rest of society = Control to keep us in our place.

Combination of:

1. understanding that society needs rules to run successfully
2. not wanting to cause ill effect on myself or others
3. being scared of consequences

Some laws are to protect people too stupid to protect themselves.

@Velveteenfruitbowl when you say correct procedures what do you mean?
In the UK we have a long - and some would say too long - process for anything to become law. Other countries it's at the whim of one or a few people. 'Correct procedures' are being followed in both technically.

You can take speed limits for example. Do you not speed because you don’t want to pay a fine or do you actually believe that going a few miles over the speed limit is wrong in some way?

Yes I don't want to be punished, however having had a friend who had an accident which ended with a child dying (he was NOT speeding and was totally exonerated from blame) and seeing how that affected him, I can only imagine how much worse it would have been if he'd felt there had been something he could have done i.e. driving more slowly for example.

There are two ways to approach laws, and we use both in society:

1. laws are absolute, and it's wrong even if no one objects or gets hurt

2. laws are there to provide a code to arbitrate in the event of a case being raised

3. might refer to a speed camera that will always flash and automate a fine, even if the person concerned was a professional rally driver with expert level driving skills on an empty motorway only 1mph above the threshold.

4. includes everything from cases such as murder (where the 'dispute' is effectively raised by the police/crown), to civil cases between neighbours.

I follow the law mostly because it's in keeping with my behaviour anyway. Almost certainly I will break laws that I don't know about, but it doesn't trouble me that I have done so, because I don't go about acting maliciously. Occasionally I'm restrained by the law where I'd otherwise behave differently. Sometimes I knowingly break the law because on balance I can accept the consequences - if they occur.

there’s a large and long standing debate about the validity of that statement.

I'm sure there is. Rather the point, really But it doesn't negate the fact that it's entirely possible to have laws that are at odds with the morality of a majority of the population. And that's before we get into another debate about whether the law should be used to enforce something as variable, and subjective as morality (which I don't).