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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Why do you obey the law?

153 replies

Velveteenfruitbowl · 29/10/2019 10:03

Something I am reading made me wonder so I want to do a poll. Ignoring situations where the law coincides with your morals (e.g. you think it’s wrong to kill people so you don’t commit murder), why do you follow the law? You can take speed limits for example. Do you not speed because you don’t want to pay a fine or do you actually believe that going a few miles over the speed limit is wrong in some way?

YANBU = I follow the law because it’s the law!

YABU = I only follow the law because I don’t want to be punished.

OP posts:
Oblomov19 · 29/10/2019 10:39

I think the Anne Frank example is a good one.

I mostly obey laws because I don't want to be fined/punished.

Although I do have very strong morals, naturally.

I don't agree with the speed laws on motorways. I think they were devised when cars were a lot less efficient. Dh's car is over-cautious, it brakes automatically if it thinks it's too close, even when it's not.

Original poster
Velveteenfruitbowl · 29/10/2019 10:41

@NWQM I meant that in a positivist sense, sorry should have been clearer. So I meant the recognised ‘correct’ procedures in the jurisdiction.

OP posts:
Original poster
Velveteenfruitbowl · 29/10/2019 10:43

@DGRossetti naturalists might disagree with that too (depending on their persuasion re the nature of morality).

OP posts:
HeronLanyon · 29/10/2019 10:43

Barrister here so breaking the law (If discovered) would end my career on top of anything else. There are a few things I’ve done mostly to do with demos/political/animal rights/environmental stuff which might have got me into trouble but I’ve always thought it through and thought ‘well so be it if I get into trouble with Bar Council’ Grin

HeronLanyon · 29/10/2019 10:44

Or Bar Standards Board.

nornironrock · 29/10/2019 10:44

This is a hugely complex issue - as clearly demonstrated already in the replies above.

I believe that for most people going about their daily lives, we abide by laws as they are the "social contract" designed to keep us all safe, and with a degree of harmony (for instance, we don't drive at 90mph past schools at kicking out time).

As mentioned above, there are also laws design to coerce and control (such as local laws on bus lanes for instance) and in this case, I believe most people adopt a risk and reward strategy that is influenced by their own morality. For some, a law is a law and must be obeyed, and for others, it's something to be worked around, with the caveat that once the risk (a fine in this case) outweighs the benefit (being able to actually get where you are going) they will then adhere to the law.

There will always be exceptions for extreme cases, but I think these are mostly emotional responses - which it is also helpful to have laws against. For instance, we would all like punishments for rapists and paedophiles to be much more harsh then they are, but if the laws (and subsequent punishments) on murder didn't exist, emotions may well lead to vigilante justice being more widespread, and perhaps administered where no offence has taken place.

Like I said, not an easy issue.

For me personally, I can think of one law I break quite regularly, as do 90% of drivers as far as I can tell - national speed limit. Conversely, I get extremely annoyed by those doing 40 through my village!

JacquesHammer · 29/10/2019 10:45

I guess for me I can't see any point in breaking in the speed limit - I mean what's the benefit?

RockinHippy · 29/10/2019 10:45

Or a 3rd, "I follow the law because it's to most sensible, safest community spirited thing to do" that's the only reason I follow the law. I wouldn't break driving law as it's for public safety. I might break other laws if the situation required it

lazylinguist · 29/10/2019 10:46

Partly because I don't want to get caught, but partly because I think if you're benefiting from living in a society that has laws, it's not ok to pick and choose which ones you think do or don't apply to you.

AmIThough · 29/10/2019 10:46

@JacquesHammer you get there faster Grin

JacquesHammer · 29/10/2019 10:47

you get there faster

I suppose that's the bit I don't really get. My time isn't that precious Grin

HeronLanyon · 29/10/2019 10:47

I also constantly as a touchstone think of all the law breakers who eg brought about universal suffrage (still not universal actually) etc.

DisgraceToTheYChromosome · 29/10/2019 10:51

I follow the law because it's part of the social contract, and because it mostly makes sense. Also, in my industry, breaching it can get you into very hot water. I'm of the opinion that if you do stuff the right way and tell the truth, you can go home early and not have to remember things.

However, I'm proud of growing my own weed back in the 80s, and having a ride on the other bus while under 21.

SpookilyBadOooooooh · 29/10/2019 10:55

Like many have said, it’s not that black & white

Most things ‘against the law’ I do /don’t do because of my morals (as you say in your OP) such as murder etc

Some laws I ‘obey’ because they’re ‘for the greater good & it makes sense (driving on the correct side of the road) even though it would be more personally beneficial to ignore them (left hand only turn onto an A road when I need to go right)

Others I cautiously ignore when it’s not hurting anyone & I think I can get away with it (in line with say ‘one way only’ sign and pulling into a parking Space on the edge of it when you can see the whole lane is empty)

And some are so fucking pointless/ridiculous I’d never even consider them ( getting drunk in a pub)

It makes me laugh on threads when people say ‘but it’s against the law!😳. When common sense dictates it’s the obvious solution. (Typically can’t think of an example!🥴)

What were you reading?

LuckySeventhWave · 29/10/2019 10:57

Mainly because the law is common sense for keeping a society temperate and safe.

bridgetreilly · 29/10/2019 10:58

I don't want to get caught, so I pay more attention to my speed than I otherwise would. But I do also think people should obey the law because it's the law. We live in a democracy. If you think the laws are wrong, you can take steps to get them changed, but simply choosing to flout them all over the place is the fast track to anarchy, and I don't think that's a good outcome for anyone.

easyandy101 · 29/10/2019 10:58

I don't obey any law that conflicts with my interests

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 10:59

Partly because I don't want to get caught, but partly because I think if you're benefiting from living in a society that has laws, it's not ok to pick and choose which ones you think do or don't apply to you.

So, returning to the Anne Frank example, what if a law were introduced making it illegal to campaign for changes in the law ? Would you break it ? Or not ? Or would you just say oh, they'd never do that with a tinkly laugh, and move on ?

"The Law", "the law" "the Law" is only a human construct. Nothing less, but certainly nothing more. And like all things human, there can always be mistakes. And given the nature of this forum, it has to be said that there are some laws which intrude on womens lives far more than mens when it comes to bodily autonomy.

Disfordarkchocolate · 29/10/2019 11:01

I feel comfortable following known rules. I've also visited several prisons and I don't want to experience the lack of personal privacy that entails.

Lhastingsmua · 29/10/2019 11:02

Like others, I wouldn’t want to lose my career or reputation. To be honest though, aside from perhaps speeding, there’s no law that I’m tempted to break really. I mean it would be grand theoretically to have someone you dislike die and be out of your life forever - but I would absolutely never actually do that. (I have an abusive family!)

However I used to work in retail (fashion) and the amount of people that shoplifted was actually ridiculous. Everyone from the people you may expect (children in large groups, people that otherwise behave strangely) to actual City executives in expensive suits (London) or middle class mums with their kids. I have even seen shoplifting in the wild, eg the ‘customer’ next to me at M&S self checkout tills. I suspect it’s easy to not get caught.

easyandy101 · 29/10/2019 11:03

Even if you get caught shoplifting you're very very unlikely to get in any trouble

Even if you get nicked multiple times a day

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 11:05

But I do also think people should obey the law because it's the law.

No conscience needed then ? Burning witches. Well, I'd rather not, but well, it is the law ...

It worries me when people have this mystical belief than nothing bad could ever happen in the future to allow evil laws to be passed. We're only ever a few steps away from totalitarianism. Better be vigilant than complacent.

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 11:06

I don't obey any law that conflicts with my interests

that's almost as asinine as obeying the law blindly Grin

CharlottesPleb · 29/10/2019 11:08

I follow the law where it is moral anyway.

I follow other laws that aren't moral requirements like eg paying taxes on the basis I'm democratically represented by and invested in the state that makes them for the good of all.

MrsBethel · 29/10/2019 11:10

Most laws are irrelevant to most people because they wouldn't do anything quiet so vile even if there were no law.

Who doesn't steal because of the law? The 99% don't steal because they are not scumbags. Same with murder, assault, graffiti, driving without insurance, picking up dog poo, etc, etc...

It's only very rarely the law makes a good person think. Speeding is the classic.