Why do you obey the law?

[Velveteenfruitbowl]

Something I am reading made me wonder so I want to do a poll. Ignoring situations where the law coincides with your morals (e.g. you think it’s wrong to kill people so you don’t commit murder), why do you follow the law? You can take speed limits for example. Do you not speed because you don’t want to pay a fine or do you actually believe that going a few miles over the speed limit is wrong in some way?

YANBU = I follow the law because it’s the law!

YABU = I only follow the law because I don’t want to be punished.

The mansplainer was a christian, so his "god" at a guess.

My God might say something different though ?

Separation of church and state is a Good Thing ...

I don’t speed and go 20 in that zone. It can feel slow but I’d hate my reaction time to be slower if a child bolted out.

Isn’t that because the OP cited speed limits as an example?

Yup, that's why I referred to it as the example.

God, there are some 20 zones where you're on a massive road with a clear wide bus lane between you and the nearest pavement/pedestrian/child.

I stick to the limit because I don't want the stress of constantly looking out for speed traps, but it doesn't half feel wrong crawling along like that with a huge queue growing behind you.

If you don't like the law, then fight to change it. Don't casually disobey it.

The problem is that if we ignore one law, it becomes easier to disobey another one. Before you know it, you've become lawless. If people see you disobey the law, they feel less inclined to obey either. Before you know it, society has become lawless or the government puts in place measures to MAKE us obey the law by brute force. Who wants to live in either of these societies?

God, there are some 20 zones where you're on a massive road with a clear wide bus lane between you and the nearest pavement/pedestrian/child.

There are some huge boulevards in Brum that are now 20 ... there's a stated aim that all minor roads become 20 zones in time. Covered by average speed cameras.

Some people are going to have a shock.

I think the OP was reading the Hogfather by Terry Pratchett. 😁

The bit about why it's important that children believe in him and the Tooth Fairy. As how else would they believe in laws as adults.

Don't casually disobey it.

That's a great way to protest it though.

Once a law stops being enforced it's not an effective law

I'm a little hmm when the laws people "morally disagree with" mysteriously happen to be the ones that have a financial benefit when broken. In terms of taxes, TV licences and the like, then there's a certain shared impact of not obeying the law which can be equated to simply pissing through a variety of strangers letterboxes.

I'm not sure you can put taxes in the same bracket as the TV Licence. Taxes benefit everyone and support the necessities of life. The TV Licence funds the BBC - if no one paid it and the BBC collapsed, no one would actually be harmed by that other than employees of the BBC.

Yeah DG Rossetti's thing about me 'morally disagreeing' with my TV licence made me laugh. I really dont't feel that emotional about it and to fair to some extent I'm paying it because everyone else does and it wouldn't be fair not to. I do not piss through people's letter boxes. There might be one or two I'd like to but too scared of getting caught, law or no law.

There are other laws I do morally disagree with that have no financial side.

Is it still the law that I should carry a bale of hay in the back of my taxi? If so, I'm breaking that law.

I don’t always obey the law, I didn’t when I was younger to a greater extent which means I have a criminal record and narrowly avoided prison twice. I wasn’t caught for the majority of things I got up to, otherwise I would have spent quite a bit of time locked away.

I generally follow speed limits, if excess speed caused an accident I could harm someone else, I wouldn’t want to do that.

Ah. Straftheorien. Lovely. 😅😅 (Idk how you call those in English)

I do not believe that there benefits to following law just for the sake of following the law (an absolutist view of crime and punishment).
Respecting a (hopefully) democratic process of creating, interpreting and preserving law?
contributing to a law abiding society?
That is however imo still generally beneficial.

But that's not why I follow the law.

1. Because I believe it to be moral.
2. Because I do not want to deal with the consequences of getting caught breaking certain laws.

That's at least in regards to public law.

When it comes to contractual obligations like paying rent? Showing up to work?

Because they're based on reciprocity. We depend on this system being upheld...

Now. Morally repugnant law.
What are the consequent of following it? Of not doing so?
Can I still live with myself whilst still following it?
Dicey question, I guess. But the general answer is yes, I'll still follow it.

Simply because I want other people to follow the laws I deem moral (and they immoral) as well. Even if they have different opinions. Yet again, reciprocity.

There are however still exceptions to this. I want to firmly believe that there are things I would not do. Even if legally mandated.

(that's the very short answer to your question, at least.)

I’m mostly law abiding but if there is nobody in front of me, I often cycle on a section of pavement to avoid a nasty roundabout. I guess I make an ‘ethical assessment’ each time - vis there is no risk to anyone as I’m the only one on the pavement, verses risk to me cycling on nasty roundabout, and there minimal risk of being caught and even if caught, of being punished. In this scenario, I don’t feel an ‘obedience norm’. I won’t follow the law just because it is the law. Indeed I probably feel morally ‘superior’ to people who believe that the law must be followed in this scenario - vis they are ‘rigid’ while I am ‘ethical’ (not saying this is right! Just sharing my internal thinking!)

When I used to work as a solicitor, I once advised a youngish person whose life chances had been spoiled by a stupid mistake that led to a minor conviction. That had a profound effect on my attitude to law breaking and on my advice to my own DCs.

Not that I have any children but if I started a thread saying "AIBU to give my 7 year old child a 6 pack of beer to drink after they come home from school?" the general response would be YABVVVVU, but it's not against the law. Similarly, if I started a thread saying "AIBU to be fuming because my 17 y/o (18 in 2 months) went to the pub for a few drinks?" the general response would be to tell me to lighten up and that 'everyone's done that before', even though it is against the law.

I give my 10 year old alcohol, I grew up having babychams and snowball, pink lady with Sunday dinner. Sips from ages 2 or 3 and one each from aged 8 or 9. I do the same with her, alcohol is like anything, have it in moderation if you like it.

Our wider family were all bought up like this, a few generations worth and none have had alcohol dependency. I've spent years teetotal.

Also is it against the law, I thought that applied to going out and purchasing alcohol from shops, bars and pubs whilst underage.

I've not really come across many laws that aren't in line with my views....

Also is it against the law, I thought that applied to going out and purchasing alcohol from shops, bars and pubs whilst underage.

I think that is the pps point - it isn't against the law for children over 5 to drink alcohol in the home, but it is against the law for children under 18 to drink in pubs. But morally, most people would see more wrong with a six year old drinking several beers at home, than a 17 year old doing the same in a pub.

Mostly the law does correspond with my morals. If it doesn't however and I want to do something illegal I weigh up risk/reward and decide accordingly.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland
That's good for you, I guess...

Really interesting thread. I would have said "I obey the law because it's the law" but then - I speed, quite often on the motorway or dual carriageways. I drank underage and wouldn't have an issue with a 17 year old drinking in a pub (in fact DD is allowed a cocktail a day when we are on holiday - she's 14). I smoked underage. I once stole a dog (she was being neglected) and I'd happily hurt anyone who hurt my DD.

So I suppose I'm in the "I obey the laws that I agree with" camp - which should make me question my morals, but doesn't 🤷‍♀️

Interesting thread

There are plenty of laws that have no singularly identifiable victim, yet can result in harsh potentially custodial sentences. Try illustrating a Game of Thrones novel and see how far you get - just drawing from imagination is enough to land you in prison. Or scraping the latex off a poppy. Or put alcohol through a water purifier still.

And it's far better that people question and challenge laws, and keep the state on it's guard, rather than blindly accept anything that's "a law" without question. That's how really nasty places in the world still work. Places you really wouldn't want to go, let alone live.

yanbu