AIBU to let 10yr old choose a state school when siblings are at private?

[JoshuaTrees]

My two older children both go to a very good private day school in London. They went to state primaries took the 11+ and went private for secondary.

My third child is year six. Since her siblings left primary we have moved and are now in the catchment for a good secondary they would not have got into. It’s good but not exceptional. All her primary friends are going there. She wants to go there too.

She’s articulate about her reasons: she doesn’t feel she fits in at the private school, she doesn’t want to be in a school where everyone is super talented and competitive, she likes the few of the state school.

My worry is she’s actually just scared she won’t pass the 11+ and get a place at the same highly selective school as her siblings. I’m scared she’s doing this out of fear and will regret it later.

The state school has almost no outdoor space or facilities and everyday she will walk past the very lovely campus of the school her siblings go to.

I think she will thrive at either school. She’s a lovely child who engages everyone she meets and sees the positives in life. But what if she looks back and resents is for letting her make this decision. How can I justify spending £18k a year on school for two of the kids and £0 for the other?

Well tbh I think i would say that you will make the decision with her once she has the results on hand but you expect her to make the most of the tutoring and exam.

I really wouldn't if her siblings are going to the private school. I went to an outstanding state school and got very good grades but we had a trip with the local private and it was humiliating when they were talking about complex issues that weren't even discussed at my school / were had no concept of. You are going to create a gap between her and her siblings. She may well end up feeling like the dunce of the family wherever this is true or not.

Also, my brother was given the option to choose between state and private and he chose state and he's now massively annoyed that they let him choose. They just didn't have the time to put into him to challenge him and he became massively bored and stopped making any effort.

I think letting your DC have a strong voice is important. I would encourage her to sit the 11+, so there is a choice for her - and you. If you and she choose the state sector, then I’d also put some money aside every year for her for savings and for her to have extra curricular stuff that the state sector can’t afford to provide (drama, trips, etc). I speak as a parent with two DC at private school, also I would reflect that the times are changing and I think a bright child in a good state school will have increased opportunities in the future as universities and employers rightly move to a model of taking into account educational opportunity and achievement in context.

It sounds like she's deciding based on fear of failure, which is a terrible reason to make any decisions. But that's not a lesson most learnt until they are much older than your dd, if they ever do.

I think she should absolutely make her decision after taking the test, but getting her go engage might be tricky. It does seem like she sees the state school as a way of getting out of the test, unfortunately.

Not all students at private schools are super talented.
We decided to send our DCs to our local private school because of the facilities and the subject choices for GCSE and A-levels. They were keen to do art and music for GCSEs, subjects which were not available in our state school. How do the schools compare subject wise.
Attend the open days, do the 11+ , and keep your options open. You do not have to decide yet.
You will also find that most of her peer group will be the sitting 11+ , and you’ll be surprised by how many of her peer group move to different schools , at least if she sits the exam she has time to think about it.

I would enquire how the state school allocates classes. Dd's separates everyone on entry, there are many classes, and a number of other good secondary schools nearby so it is very unusual to be in the same class as another girl from your previous class. Going there to be with friends would be pointless. Fortunately it wasn't the reason we chose it.

I was on a similar situation. Do the exams, see how you feel after that.

The bonus of starting in state is that it is more likely you can move to the private school but not so likely a move from private to state, the days are shorter so you have time (and the money) for extra tuition and activities outside of school, if that’s what is wanted/needed and the money you save can still be used on her however she wants it spent.

My son chose a state grammar over comp. Originally he wanted to go to comp, but chose gs because his brother had gone to gs. His brother had flown at gs.

The son who 'followed in his footsteps' was always a top student at primary but is middling at grammar and his confidence has been affected. He's more sociable and less competitive than his brother.

Two years in and his close group of primary school friends are as tight as ever and he still hangs out with them outside of school as his gs friends aren't local and because the bond of this group was alway so tight - don't underestimate some friendships.

At his single sex gs there aren't any of the fun elementd that I had at comp - no discos, socials, talent shows. It's all about grades.

If we had our time again, I wish he had chosen the comp. We gave him the choice, but I think his confidence would be higher as he'd be in higher sets, he could walk to school, see his friends every day and not be in an exam hot house. School is so much more than academia.

We always said to my son he could move back but he's never wanted to. He has friends inside school and plays online etc. I don't think he realises what he 'could have won' at comp.

A more 'normal' and well rounded experience.

With that in mind, I would let your daughter choose the comp. It's her path to forge and she seems like a very mature girl.

You get one shot at childhood. Happiness has to come first.

If she was an only child, and you take away the “walking to school” aspect, is the private school the RIGHT school for her? If
You lived a 20 minute commute away would you and she choose THAT school?

Parents choose schools not children. Yes, their opinions should be considered but ultimately it is your choice. Why not allow her to take 11+ and go from there.....

Thanks all. Lots of good advice here.

The results at the private school are completely out of the league of the state school. The private school is entirely A*s and As (or 9s or whatever) with a B considered an aberration. The state school has a comprehensive intake so it’s not comparable it was above national average results but not too 100 state school results. But I do believe a bright and motivated child will do well at both.

She is studying hard for the exam. She’s far from lazy. It’s just she’s adamant she does not want to take it and she says she studying hard just to get better, not to get into a school.

absolutely your choice not hers. she's 10!! you have to weigh up the pros and cons and make the best decision. i agree with pp that the option of the state school is only an option if she tries her absolute best to pass the private school exam.

That does sound intense! Isn't there a slightly less academic private school nearby.

Its not SPGS is it? My friends dd 'only' got into Bristol from there and you'd think the world had imploded. Nuts!

I listened very hard to my DCs at 10 over their choice of secondary schools. And felt that they often spotted things that I wouldn't have noticed, eg. the teachers who were great at talking to parents but not so good with 11 year olds (and vice versa) - I feel that talking to 11 year olds is probably more important.
I also think if your DD knows she can't cope with not "passing" the exam, and is at all stressed about it (which could be hidden by saying she won't do it), then maybe such a stressful environment is not best for her. Maybe she does have a better understanding of herself than most.

I could write this myself( although we are not in London) I have shown her the differences on A level results and pointed out that she will be more likely to achieve the grades she needs to do her current choice of career.
Also she is sporty but not stellar so have pointed out how much more likely she is to get in a team when there are 4 and 50 girls to choose from vs 1 team and 150 girls to choose from.
Either school is a bus/ drive for us.
Will see what happens after the exam.

From the POV of a child who was in a similar situation (but without the sibling side)

When I was 10 I was given the opportunity to go for a scholarship to a private school. I was adamant it wasn’t for me and I wanted to go to the local state school.

When my parents discussed it with me I do remember telling them I would take the exam but I could guarantee I would fail it because I would make sure I did.

At no point have I ever regretted the decision I made and I am pleased my parents respected my views

Sorry. My last post should have said “not top 100 state school results”.

Trewser - you may be on to something with your guess.

State Schools can change very, very quickly - and not for the better. One of my jobs went from being absolutely lovely, an Outstanding School, to Inadequate within three years.

Quite frankly, all it needs is a new Head who decides that an extra income stream is setting up a class for kids who have been kicked out of every school they've ever been in would be a great idea, but fails to put into place procedures/support to manage their transition; their behaviour is challenging, it rubs off on other kids, you get a few negative press reports, results decline, existing staff leave, experienced staff get replaced by NQTs and Schools Direct/Teach First graduates, behaviour declines, results decline further, admissions decline/higher attaining kids aren't sent there and the lovely school in Year 7 becomes a dumping ground closing by Year 11.

Private Schools don't tend to have the same rapid changes/parents don't stand for anything that would damage their children's education and in all honesty, if I had a small child and the money to do it, I'd be putting them through the Private system whether they wanted to take a Tube or not. As did literally every teacher at that once Outstanding School. Including the Head who thought it was so important to give 'disadvantaged' children the opportunity to fuck up everybody else's chances.

My BIL went to their local grammar. My DH (five years younger) went to the state comp. BIL crashed out of uni after his second year, DH has a Masters. It depends on the individual.

From my POV, I wasn't given the opportunity to go private, however when it came to choosing my secondary school, my mother was adamant that I should go to school X because it was mixed. I wanted to go to school Y (single sex). We went back and forth, and eventually I pointed out that she wasn't the person that had to spend every day there. I do understand what you're saying though. In your position, I'd feel the same. I would have liked mine to go private for secondary, but my husband won't entertain it. We are fortunate to live near two excellent secondaries.

I'd be sure to let her know that most and probably the local state school will split up clumps of kids from the same school within the tutor groups, and within the subject lessons. So while she will be going to the same school as friends it's unlikely she will spend masses of time with them beyond the odd one or two other than in break times, and chances are she'll be making new friends.

OP, your DD is 11 years old. She has not one, but two, older siblings that have both got into this independent school and now it’s her turn to do the same. Of course this is massive pressure and, whatever she says, of course this is the fear of failure talking!

Also, you must know from the experiences with your older DC that primary friendships are generally irrelevant in that they change to secondary. This will be the case even if she goes to the state, but of course, your DD can’t possibly know that. She doesn’t have the benefit of hindsight yet.

Are you talking about Latymer Upper School, by the way (I only ask this because there are not that many co-Ed London Day Schools with those results)? I have DC there and, as I’m sure you know, at least 20% are on bursaries. There is a policy that no child ever misses out in a trip due to financial circumstances - this simply does not happen. My DC have friends from all walks of life - in fact, they have the chance to mix with a wider demographic than you wouid find in any state school. London independents are very different to being closeted away in the countryside somewhere, as I’m sure you know. So what does she mean when she says she won’t fit in? She comes from a family who are already part of the school! I can’t think of any school that has a “personality type.” If she’s worried about academic pressure, well, again, as you must know, these schools are self-selecting. It’s rare for a child who would not cope to be offered a place at 11 plus. The odds of a place are one in ten for some of these schools, so they have no need to take children who might not cope.

Yes she may well get all “9s” at a state school, but she will be one if a few if she does, rather than part of the norm. Don’t underestimate the impact of peer comparison throughout school. My DS thought he was very average all the way through, as did many of his friends tbh, yet they all came out with all 9s. Nobody rests on their laurels, in other words. Nobody can be complacent for a second. In a state school, they would have been constantly told they were way above expectations; top of the top sets; etc etc and wouldn’t have worked so hard. That’s what happened to me.

If your DD is doing 11 plus for this particular independent, is she not doing any other entrance exams for other schools? Even if she doesn’t get into this one school, it would probably do her well to feel that she got in somewhere, even if she eventually does end up going to the state school. Maybe sit the Girls Consortium exam as there’s not much you can do for this one anyway and there’s about 12 schools all over London you can apply for through it, some easier to get into than others?

I would say to her that she can’t possibly make choices until you all know what those choices are. I wish you the best of luck, having gone through this process several times. At least she has a good state option. This is a positive!

I would let her choose.

I would want her to take the exam first though, so she has an actual choice and to be sure it isn't just exam nerves. She may say there's no point, but tests under exam conditions will occur at some point wherever she goes at so the practice is always good.

FWIW, state school students regularly joined the sixth form at my DC's school and by the time they left you wouldn't know they hadn't completed their whole education there.

Also, universities, especially Oxbridge, are under increasing pressure to take more state school applicants. I know this is way in the distance for you but a factor worth considering,
.

@sanchezz it’s not LUS. I was trying to be a bit cryptic to remain anonymous but as I’ve name changed I guess it does matter. She has a brother at St Paul’s and a sister at SPGS. So actually not at the “same” school. It means she has to get into SPGS which is always a lottery. We thought of applying for LUS but it seems nearly as difficult so not much of a “back-up”. Anyway it’s all irrelevant if she insists on the state option.

I feel she will truly regret it if she doesn't go, I still clearly remember entering secondary school, everyone gets separated into different forms so you're forced to make new friends. Choosing a school based on where your friends are is silly because I remember after about a month I was barely saying hello to my old friends across the yard, and to this day I don't even speak to anyone I went to secondary school with! Your major friends in life are made a bit later on. Obviously there are exceptions to this but I've found in general people form lasting friendships when they're older. If these friendships are really strong, then they will survive different schools. Maybe suggest weekly/fortnightly meetups on a weekend? It will be easy to do as you're in London so there's plenty to keep them entertained.

One of my close friends who I met at university went to an all girl's private high school, her two siblings went to comp. She only went because she has dyslexia and was struggling so was sent there. To make up for this her parents paid for her brothers to go on extra trips and have more experiences, didn't bother her at all as she was getting the more focussed education.

She's told us it was hard at first, especially as she moved over a year into secondary school rather than from year 7, however she settled in quickly and it has benefitted her so well now.

Personally I would tell your daughter that she will need to try out a private school for a year, if by the end of year 7 she hasn't settled and still stands by her decision then you can review and send her to the comp. The comp will tell you that they only have the odd place available simply because they want you to send your child from the beginning. And if these friendships are so important that she's basing her schools decisions on it, then surely they'll still be strong by time she's finished the first year.