To think this is a ridiculous reason not to shortlist someone for interview?

[Wobblywobble321]

I applied for a job with the NHS. I had an email to say I had not been shortlisted and to contact hiring manager for feedback if I wished. So I emailed him today. I was expecting to get a reply stating what I was missing in my skills/experience/knowledge. Instead I was told I wasn't shortlisted because I didn't make an informal visit to the department before the application deadline. When I applied for my previous two roles in the NHS I contacted the manager and asked for an informal visit and both times I was told no. I was told that I could not visit before interview. With my current post I asked if I could visit after interview when I knew I was successful just to meet the team and get a feel for parking etc and was made to feel like a massive inconvenience and it was uncomfortable on my visit. So this time when I applied I thought it best not to ask for a visit. So to be told I did not get an interview purely based on not visiting the department before hand seems ridiculous to me.
I know there's is no point in being annoyed and I'll take something from it and definitely call the manager to arrange a visit for any future roles. But aibu to think this is ridiculous? Aibu to think I should be interviewed or not interviewed based on my bloody skills, knowledge and experience rather than whether I visited the department or not?

That is ridiculous. I have never heard of having to make an informal visit to any potential workplace before. Do you currently work for the same NHS trust? Is it not a security issue to have random members of the public walking around areas of the NHS that presumably are not open to the public?

YANBU. Do you think they're shortlisting mainly people who work there already?

YANBU, I think that is odd. Perhaps in conjunction with other things ie application shows literally no evidence of understanding anything about the department, as to which a visit I guess may help. I was advised once to make email enquiries before applying to show youre really interested, but never sure what to ask as most adverts are now quite comprehensive and cover most details.

I don't and never have worked for the NHS so don't know if this is routine but it sounds very odd to me. If they don't specify this in the job advertisement they can hardly hold this up as a reason to reject someone out of hand.

Can you take it up with their HR?

This is ridiculous.

Not only that but it in my opinion points to the presence of an officious bullying twat in the the department, either the interviewer or someone very close in the chain of command there.

Bullet dodged, if you ask me.

Why would you want to work with someone more interested in office politics than the skills you've worked hard to gain and nurture.

Yes I’d query with HR. This doesn’t sound like normal NHS recruitment methods. Query it.

Daft isn't it! I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who can see how ridiculous it is.
I'm wondering if it was because they already have someone in mind so they were using a ridiculous reason to not give me an interview but surely they could have come up with something better? I'm so bloody cross honestly. It was a job I was so excited about and really felt I could do well in. I would have been fine if I had been told I wasn't shortlisted because I was lacking some kind of skill or experience but just because I didn't visit stings a bit

It's bonkers given the number of applicants for most NHS jobs (not the specialists).

My first thought was the job already had somebody’s name on it.

That’s ridiculous! And I say that as a recruiting manager in the NHS. Contact HR and ask them if it’s policy and why it wasn’t in the advert.

They have to give an excuse. People make up all sorts of reasons for rejecting applicants, you never find out the real reason.

Most irregular - another NHS recruiting manger here.
Contact HR.

But when you are being shortlisted, do they not anonymise it? How would they know you hadn't been for a visit? I don't get that.

Aside from that point, no way would I apply for a post that refused to accommodate an informal visit. If they can't be bothered to sell their department to potential new recruits, why on earth would I want to? It's your chance to interview them and a refusal speaks volumes about how they consider their employees. I used to love showing people around my dept - I was bloody proud of it.

You don't want to go for a job where the management are not encouraging, welcoming or proud.

Keep looking (and visiting). A good management team respects recruits.

Would you have even been able to just drop in? Would it be office or secured area?

I recruit into the NHS and have worked with managers that have given the job to someone who made an informal (arranged) visit to the department over someone that hasn't. I don't understand this at all as I appreciate people have busy lives and don't always have chance to swan off and look around a department.
It's not an official NHS recruitment guideline so I think you should complain. However, this will be known to the team so they might not hire you anyway. Don't be disheartened, it sounds like you're dodging a bullet tbh.

@PonteLaCorona totally agree with everything you said!

It could be that they had so many applicants that They had to narrow it down somehow. I work for the NHS and last job we advertised on our team we had 85 applications.

NHS recruiting manager here. Not a valid reason for not shortlisting. Can only be based on your application form and how it fits (or not) the person spec.

Came along to say as above - shortlisting should purely be based on scoring your application against the person spec. And a PP raised a very valid point about the applications being anonymised so they wouldn't have known whether you'd visited at the time of shortlisting.

Employee Relations here, completely irregular and should definitely be appealed.

That sounds wrong - they shouldn't have any personal information about you. If you stated something in your application that they remember from an informal chat, they could work out who it is (I talked to the recruiting manager about my suitability for a post and gave my work history, so when I referred to it in my application, she worked out that it was me), but they won't have names, age, sex, etc.

It's so weird. I have worked for the NHS )as do both my sisters) for 11 years.

We have always been told it's massively important to visit the department before the interview to "show your face", so I have always done this. It is massively inconvenient as you have to pay for parking, potentially book time off work twice and still aren't guaranteed the job.

Conversely, I work in Payroll now and they were super weird with me when I arranged to go round before the interview (even though I obviously got the job) apparently it's not the done thing there 🤷🏼‍♀️

Also, loads of NHS jobs are earmarked for people already doing the job/in the department. Which is annoying but it happens a lot.

I think they might have weeded out applicants who were a threat to their preferred candidate.

Oh this is so true

I recently asked for feedback following interview, apparently I scored high but because I didn't contact the lead nurse BEFORE submitting my application and because I didn't go for an informal walk round I didn't get the job

Fucking pathetic

I have recruited into many roles for the NHS and the shortlisting has to be done based on firstly the essential and if necessary then the desirable criteria in the JD/person spec. However, as I recruit into specialist roles I like to see candidates ask for an informal visit or have a conversation over the phone about the role. I don't mind if this is pre or post shortlisting but certainly before interview. I've elected not to apply for jobs having had an informal chat first as it became apparent it wasn't what I was looking for. Recently in prep for an interview I had a one hour meeting with the director of nursing and a face to face and 2 telephone conversations with key potential colleagues. I narrowly didn't get the role but the effort I had put in to find out about the role and understand the challenges was positively commented on and will stand me in good stead for future roles in that area.
I would certainly challenge the short listing decision but don't write off the benefits of the informal visit/chat especially if you get nervous in interviews as they will already have seen you at your best which can help.