To think this is a ridiculous reason not to shortlist someone for interview?

[Wobblywobble321]

I applied for a job with the NHS. I had an email to say I had not been shortlisted and to contact hiring manager for feedback if I wished. So I emailed him today. I was expecting to get a reply stating what I was missing in my skills/experience/knowledge. Instead I was told I wasn't shortlisted because I didn't make an informal visit to the department before the application deadline. When I applied for my previous two roles in the NHS I contacted the manager and asked for an informal visit and both times I was told no. I was told that I could not visit before interview. With my current post I asked if I could visit after interview when I knew I was successful just to meet the team and get a feel for parking etc and was made to feel like a massive inconvenience and it was uncomfortable on my visit. So this time when I applied I thought it best not to ask for a visit. So to be told I did not get an interview purely based on not visiting the department before hand seems ridiculous to me.
I know there's is no point in being annoyed and I'll take something from it and definitely call the manager to arrange a visit for any future roles. But aibu to think this is ridiculous? Aibu to think I should be interviewed or not interviewed based on my bloody skills, knowledge and experience rather than whether I visited the department or not?

DH and I work at similar levels of seniority in the NHS and HE respectively. We've discussed this before because he's had a few changes of role since we've been together and has always made contact or visited first. Said it was totally standard and he wouldn't be taken seriously without it. But in HE (in my experience) it's seen as weird and pushy to do this.

My boss has been quite open that the rare occasions someone has made any contact she wouldn't not shortlist them but she'd definitely hold it against them. I would too really because it's just not the done thing. But in the NHS it seems essential!

Wow, how strange. I've never been to a potential place of work without being invited, personally. In my sector it would be seen as frankly weird behaviour. Aren't shibboleths interesting.

@PonteLaCorona has it, I have recruited in the NHS and it is anonymous.

I smell bullshit. Call HR.

I applied for a Matron’s post within the NHS and was told exactly the same. I had applied quite near to the deadline and couldn’t get time off. It’s an excuse which allows them to appoint a preferred internal candidate even if they don’t meet the person spec.

I work in local government in a specialist professional field and having an informal visit before interview or application is totally bonkers. It also should not be taken into account and given as a reason not to shortlist if you meet the essential criteria (unless of course it is essential).

If your in the union i would raise it via your local steward or talk directly to HR. I assume the person was stupid enough to respond via email and tell you this?

Have worked in many different departments in NHS England and Scotland and never heard of this.

I went for post, there were 4 vacancies in different locations. I was told to visit each location to be taken seriously.

The worst bit is I would have love the visit the department before submitting my application but I didn't because I was worried I would inconvenience them based on my current and previous bosses reaction to informal visits.

There was no other feedback at all. So nothing to do with my application by the sounds of it, purely based on me not visiting them. I would be fine if I was lacking something but I covered the person spec well, met all the essential and desirable criteria so if I had known it was essential to visit I would have.

Thanks for the replies. It's made me feel a bit better about it all.

If an informal visit isn’t part of the requirement on the job description how can they possibly use it as a criterion to reject candidates? And as someone upthread said, there can be dozens of candidates for one job. If they all wanted an informal visit that department would come to a standstill as 85 of them were shown around.

08PonteLaCorona I've definitely learnt my lesson about hiring managers who aren't keen to show off their departments sadly. I'm now working in a department that was described one way in interview but is definitely nothing like the positive picture I was given

I just wish I had arranged a visit now

So if they had 200+ applications they would need to host that many informal visits? That's obviously not going to happen so they've made it up.

Surely any visit would be post shortlisting and pre interview, not pre shortlisting.

And, anyway, if it's informal why does it need to be arranged? Say you already did it.......

I imagine they already have a preferred candidate in mind and needed an excuse. I expect there were few applicants and none visited, and this is how they knew you hadn't been.

Is it worth appealing though? If a manager treats applicants unfairly, how do they treat their staff?
Do you want to work for them?

The old relationship advice applies here too: When someone shows you who they are, listen!

Not every NHS job has dozens of applicants - we're pretty pleased if we manage to get three or four!

I think equal opportunities would ban this practice - please tell their HR

I have shortlisted for nhs posts. The instructions I got from management were that you had to interview anyone who met the essential criteria.
Someone who visited prior to interview and showed interest was always viewed favourably ( and they usually did better at interview cos they understood the local situation better) . However if they hadn’t visited it wouldn’t have been a reason not to interview or even appoint to the job.
You should contact HR.

I would definitely phone HR and mention this. There are bad managers who do not follow procedure. At a push they may be able to add a departmental visit as a 'desirable criteria' which may lose you a couple of points but I think the shortlisting points all come from the person spec so I don't think it is right or proper to discriminate on those grounds.
The only other reason I can think of is if they had a lot of high scoring applicants and needed to reduce numbers to a manageable level for interview, they may have creamed off the ones who visited.

Seems weird if this isn’t part of the usual process/custom & practice for the role you were applying for. However, I’m an NHS Consultant and this has always been a must (in all of the trusts I have worked in). Express an interest by requesting application pack, visit & ask the pertinent questions, apply, interview. No one wants to interview someone and then have to wait to find out if they are still interested after a visit -they tend to want an answer the same day even if that is subject to negotiating T&Cs. Everyone just seems to know and does this. We’d find it really odd if someone turned up to interview without having visited and assume they weren’t really interested or only visited their first choice.

Not the NHS but my boss absolutely looks down on applicants who haven't called her for a chat before applying. I don't agree with her btw.

Another NHS professional here who concurs that it's utter rubbish. I've done a fair bit of shortlisting / recruiting. I have to interview someone who meets all the essential criteria. Visiting before hand would give a positive impression, but would only get you the job of you scored equal points with someone else who'd been interviewed but who hadn't visited. I've never visited prior to an interview, though I have had informal chats over the phone.

If you definitely met all the essential criteria, OP, you should speak to HR.

This is crazy.If they want you to have visited,then they should have said.

It was probably an excuse.

That sounds thoroughly weird. It sounds more like the sort of wank you get in arts/media jobs where there are all these traps laid for people to see how much shit they will eat before they get called for interview.

(My knowledge of interview procedure is a bit limited, I will admit: most jobs I have got have either been via friends or the sort of thing where the interview consists of 'What's your name, do you know? OK when do you want to start, the shit you will be shovelling is over there...'

I changed sectors to work in education. I was advised by a newly qualified teacher friend of mine that it was absolutely necessary to visit a school before application. What she perhaps didnt realise was that might be the case for teaching staff - it is wierd and most unusual for support staff (below SLT). So I do wonder if it is the same in the NHS - where it is expected for certain roles but not for others.

Something similar happened to me-internal appointment for which I had had 20 years' experience. Only other applicant was a 20-something with no experience at all. I was told that I did not get the position because I failed to attend an informal chat about what the job involved. They refused to acknowledge that it might have been something to do with my being over 60. Naturally.

I would have a bet that an internal candidate got the job & they are looking for excuses to give to the external candidates.