To think this is a ridiculous reason not to shortlist someone for interview?

[Wobblywobble321]

I applied for a job with the NHS. I had an email to say I had not been shortlisted and to contact hiring manager for feedback if I wished. So I emailed him today. I was expecting to get a reply stating what I was missing in my skills/experience/knowledge. Instead I was told I wasn't shortlisted because I didn't make an informal visit to the department before the application deadline. When I applied for my previous two roles in the NHS I contacted the manager and asked for an informal visit and both times I was told no. I was told that I could not visit before interview. With my current post I asked if I could visit after interview when I knew I was successful just to meet the team and get a feel for parking etc and was made to feel like a massive inconvenience and it was uncomfortable on my visit. So this time when I applied I thought it best not to ask for a visit. So to be told I did not get an interview purely based on not visiting the department before hand seems ridiculous to me.
I know there's is no point in being annoyed and I'll take something from it and definitely call the manager to arrange a visit for any future roles. But aibu to think this is ridiculous? Aibu to think I should be interviewed or not interviewed based on my bloody skills, knowledge and experience rather than whether I visited the department or not?

I'd contact HR too. If you Google NHS recruitment process and your health board there are lots of documents outlining the process.

They should only shortlist on essential/desirable requirements, is just not possible for everyone to visit. 50 people visiting just in case they get shortlisted. Hmm.

I once attended an nhs interview where emails had gone out to candidates with questions for then to prepare answers to, but I didn't receive the email. No accommodation of this oversight at all. Didn't get the job. Surprise. Nothing would surprise me, but I think it's worth flagging up as it were.

This is a ridiculous criterion. Especially when it's not mentioned in the advert. Do they really expect people who might be applying for a number of jobs to spend all the time involved taking time off work, outlaying money on travel costs etc. Not to mention having informal visits for possibly 80 people. No wonder the NHS is on its knees if they've got time for that.

In some ways OP you've probably saved yourself time though. Like PPs I think they've probably got a preferred (internal) candidate and didn't want someone too good in the interview process. I once got a job that someone wanted for their friend, and they were obstructive to me for years. I only found out some time later why they were foul to me!

My understanding is that nhs recruitment has very rigid guidelines. I would definitely contact hr by email so that it leaves a paper trail. I’d ask if this is policy and explain you didn’t ask on this occasion as each time in the past before interview in other departments you have been refused. You were excited about the role and didn’t want to jeopardise your application by asking this time around.

Four different NHS jobs and have never ever done a walk around or informal visit beforehand. Definitely take it up with HR!

This sort of nonsense is common for teaching jobs although it's more to do with the fact that it's really bad form to turn a teaching post down if you're offered it - you're supposed to have done your research and be really sure you want the job. It makes the application process a right palaver.

Sounds like you've been unlucky enough to have come up against an internal candidate - at least you didn't have to waste your time preparing for an interview.

I don't know anything about the NHS, which is a very different culture I think from the industry I work in, but I have never got useful feedback from failed job interviews. they just can't be bothered. I have often been told "there were three strong candidates short listed, and in the end we just thought that x was the one with the best experience" and when I try to get them to expand on what specifically the other candidate had that I don't, I get nowhere. they just seem to think I want to hear "don't worry, you were good" but what I actually want is "what do I spend my time working on now, for the next thing that comes up?" I never get it. They can't be arsed. It's hard enough to get good, useful, critical feedback from your current boss who has a vested interest in improving your performance - they have no interest in bothering to say anything useful.

So. If you want to cover all bases, then yes do arrange informal visits in future - but I would take this with a massive pinch of salt. It was an easy, relatively impersonal thing to say and they have got you off their backs

Maybe that's a rule they use. I've applied to NHS first time called beforehand and got interview immediately although I then turned down due to required hours (which is why I called). Second time job was perfect my skills got perfectly but not heard a thing! Seems ridiculous though! Can't see how that is a fair rule to use at all!

I've worked in the NHS for 10 years and been involved in recruitment. Never heard of this before, Op, and would agree with others that it sounds like an easy way to get you to stop asking any more questions.

"
You don't want to go for a job where the management are not encouraging, welcoming or proud.
"
That sounds good but lots of people just need a job.

I agree this is odd and clearly a cover up for the real reason you were rejected (and a pp made a good point about anonymised shortlisting). But you do not HAVE to interview everyone who meets the requirements and if the op were to contact hr they wouldn't do anything!

The NHS has some weird unwritten rules that are entirely department specific.

I was told once I didn't get a promotion because I didn't go round the interviewers and ask them what they were going to ask me! I had literally never heard of that before.

Very odd that the job spec did not say that it was ‘strongly advisable’ to make an informal visit if it was so important. However, I agree that it does look as if they had an internal candidate in mind.

I have never heard of having to make an informal visit to any potential workplace before

As PP have said, sadly it is common in teaching. Extremely tiresome as they seem to expect you to be able to get time off from teaching your current class just for an informal visit. I agree it should not be part of the shortlisting criteria, especially if several other NHS roles have told you definitively they don't want this. At least in teaching you know it's a standard expectation.

I've shortlisted in the NHS, we had to base it on the listed criteria and nothing else. We also had to record a reason why each person wasn't shortlisted. I'd be very annoyed.

I think it really depends on the level. I can see it for a consultant post as you’re likely to be there for years if you get it and fit becomes important. For a medical secretary post it would seem ridiculous and surely wards are too busy to be hosting loads of meetings. There does seem to be a weird code in different sectors around how compulsory making contact for an informal chat is.

Sounds like a pain. How about feeding back to HR that you wouldn't want to waste their time by visiting before the shortlisting and had you been shortlisted you would have gone.

Better luck with your next application.

I’ve done some NHS interviewing and this is really off. They have to give you an interview if you meet the person spec, that’s how it works. I expect they had an internal candidate they wanted or some bollocks. I think they’re fobbing you off unfairly and I would contact HR about it, regardless of whether you would want to work there now, as this is unfair practice.

And as pp said, it’s all anonymised, so how did they know.

I am assuming and I may be wrong, that this was an internal application? If I'm correct, I would have expected you as a minimum to contact the hiring manager for an informal discussion and a visit if deemed appropriate. If the line manger says no, then it would obviously be unreasonable of them to make this part of the selection criteria. Remember, a hiring manager can set criteria for interview selection, ( provided this does not breech employment law), so can include attendance etc and not necessarily just skills/ experience. I say this as an HR manager.

"They have to give you an interview if you meet the person spec, that’s how it works"
This may be your organisation policy but it isn't the law.
Have you seen the two ticks scheme, where applicants with a disability are guaranteed an interview if they meet the essential requirements? So by definition this doesn't need to be applied to all candidates

Employers use all sorts of criteria to sift out candidates when they get too many applications. If they had decided to interview a certain number of candidates and that number had shown their interest by going on a visit then they seem perfectly reasonable.

I work for the NHS and it is common practice in the health board that I work for. I have made an informal visit or asked for one for every job here that I have applied for and have been told by managers that it is looked upon favourably here (my health board) and is sort of an unwritten rule.

@StealthPolarBear ok then they should maybe then have to.

What you often get is just internal promotion after internal promotion (because it’s easier and doesn’t require training and paperwork) and endless ‘moving sideways’ (i.e no one can get rid of you but they don’t know what else to do). Rather than employing externally and getting new ideas through the door. Which goodness knows some NHS Trusts need. I have genuinely had the response of ‘because that’s just how we do it’, when I’ve asked why do we do that, before. Anyway, I’m going off on a tangent.

The other thought is they had 300 applicants and had to narrow it down somehow, but not necessarily in the best way.

I know it was something seen as positive in schools because it offers the chance for the candidate to actually see that the culture of the school is a good fit for them. If we had doubts about their ability to fit in from their application and they hadn't visited, we'd go with our doubts.

I have seen a few NHS and other jobs advertised were they have said that informal visits etc are encouraged. That is the only time I would request a visit. I've just been turned down for a job based on criteria that weren't in the job spec, that's even more annoying.

You learn something new every day. I've never worked in the NHS and didn't realise it could be a thing to visit somewhere before you even applied. I have certainly done a lot of research and made visits in connection with roles I've applied for but never to the actual workplace and only ever once I had a confirmed interview.