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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to suggest that you aren't really an animal lover if you're not a vegan

552 replies

KylieKoKo · 20/10/2019 21:14

I'm a meateater but I was chatting to a vegan friend of mine about this and I think she has a point. It makes no sense to call yourself an animal lover if you pay others to kill animals or take their milk and eggs when its perfectly possible to live without them. I couldn't help but agree with her, and, as a non-vegan, had to conceed that I don't really love animals. In fact, I'm putting the fact that they taste nice above their lives and well-being on a daily basis.

I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone on here had an argument against this.

OP posts:
Boshmama · 22/10/2019 18:02

@doctorallcome I don't think they can consent to sex, 'daycare', or work. You are the one saying calves happily skip off to daycare whilst mummy gets milked.

I'm saying animals have not, can not, consent to being used, abused and killed by humans. Nothing very Disney about that.

Animals are sentient though - here's a farming source of all things www.ciwf.org.uk/farm-animals/animal-sentience/

If I was a cow or pig I would rather have never been bred into existence than to have a short, miserable, abuse filled life that ends in terror at a slaughter house and I choose to save other animals that fate.

In your eyes that is 'fanatical' fine, then I'm fanatical and I'll carry on being so.

Interesting how you say with one breath I'm anthropomorphising animals and in the next asking me to empathise with them 'And from the perspective of a sheep, cow, pig or chicken do you think they would choose a future in which they were on endangered species list?'

And the answer is yes, of course, when the alternative is as horrific and barbaric as it is.

Beesandcheese · 22/10/2019 18:05

I'm not a vegan because I lapse but I know enough who claim to be yet keep pets and seem to be blissfully unaware of the cognitive dissonance there.

mamandematribu · 22/10/2019 18:54

Today my tribe ate roast chicken for dinner.... lush 😋

RealBecca · 22/10/2019 19:00

I can reassure you.

Raw vegan isnt the same as vegan.

I am vegan and throughout pregnancy they said my bloods were perfect. I also had a blood test a few years ago and it was perfect then too. It can be done. And dont buy into the protein freak out either Wink

ScreamingLadySutch · 22/10/2019 19:07

Yes, you are.

Death is PART OF LIFE.

You cannot stop death by trying to prevent death. The sooner these neurotics face their fears and stop trying to change the reality of being humans (we need to eat animal fat) and stop trying to impose their terrors on everyone else, the happier everyone will be.

Radix1 · 22/10/2019 19:20

With no extra attention to my diet (besides daily multivitamin) my blood results 'optimal'. Been vegan one year, vegetarian 5 years. Online vegan groups (pragmatic ones are good) offer lots of advice, tips, info and support.

mrswx · 22/10/2019 19:43

@Boshmama
Using animals for food, clothes or any other purpose is cruel, outdated and barbaric.

What about medication?

Radix1 · 22/10/2019 19:51

Cognitive dissonance aside, we are obligated to care for these animals. Through no fault of their own (we humans created their dependency through domestication and breeding), they depend on us for their safety and protection. Abandoning and neglecting them would be outright irresponsible. Adopting and caring for them is the least we can do, after all we created the mess they're in.

Raspberrytruffle · 22/10/2019 20:00

I don't want to be vegan purely because i love meat, if it means killing animals or raping them for there milk then so be it, couldn't give a shot. Now off to eat my murdered cow curry, I've been told off an idiot vegan associate that she hopes I go to hell? So do I atleast it will be warm and not filled with stupid c#nts like my vegan freind, I haven't got an issue with vegan or vegetarian just the silly sausages that ram it down everyone's gullet

Vampirinabat · 22/10/2019 20:07

We don't need to eat animal fat though. And yes death is a part of of life but we don't need to purposefully speed it up when we can decide not to. We aren't a lion acting on instinct.

Vampirinabat · 22/10/2019 20:08

Boshmama

Agree with your last post

Radix1 · 22/10/2019 20:09

Unnecessary use of animals and their products is unacceptable to me but if its impractical and health depends on it (which is rare), I'd be open to consuming an animal product - and still consider myself a vegan.

Vampirinabat · 22/10/2019 20:12

interesting how you say with one breath I'm anthropomorphising animals and in the next asking me to empathise with them

They anthropomorphised animals as soon as they started all that "mummy cow cows to work to get milked" and "baby calf goes to day care" and then compared it to humans going to work. But then they say we do that? Hmm

lljkk · 22/10/2019 20:17

While we're derailing onto other topics...

lentils, chickpeas, beans, tofu, cashew nuts, ... kale, dried apricots and figs, raisins, quinoa and fortified breakfast cereal

Those are all among my favourite foods. Listed by the British Vegan society to get iron from. When I was "pescatarian" I ate lots of those foods. Plus wholemeal flour & leafy veg & sea weed... AND fish. I was always having problems with iron anemia. No anemia since I started eating meat again. I think I may need some meat in my diet.

Radix1 · 22/10/2019 20:31

We all have a conscience and free will. If the violent choice works for you, so be it. At least you're honest and don't claim to love animals.

Radix1 · 22/10/2019 20:50

Did you have a daily multivitamin? Also having Vit c rich food (kiwi fruit, orange, mango etc) with iron rich food increases absorption of iron. Maybe a vegan dietician could be helpful.
Perhaps you've already tried the above. If so, maybe you're the rare person who actually does need meat.

Whatsforu · 22/10/2019 21:00

Arya
You are really not clued up on b12Hmm

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 22/10/2019 21:00

And from the perspective of a sheep, cow, pig or chicken do you think they would choose a future in which they were on endangered species list?

Being human food is the single most effective evolutionary strategy going for mammals right now.

Being our competitors is the bad move. Ask the wolves. Oh wait, you can't, we killed them.

FthisS · 22/10/2019 21:03

Yanbu I'm a lifelong vegan as are my children

Radix1 · 22/10/2019 21:29

@ScreamingLadySutch We don't need to eat animal fat - at all.
Each human creates their own reality. Violence is not a given human attribute - it's a choice each one of us makes. Choosing peace is not trying to stop or prevent death - at least not natural death.
Have you thought about the terror imposed on the animals you eat - prior to and during slaughter?

Radix1 · 22/10/2019 21:31

♥️

AryaStarkWolf · 22/10/2019 21:45

@Whatsforu I am, thank you 💩

ScreamingLadySutch · 22/10/2019 21:48

Yes, we do need to eat animal fat.

One of the largest organs in the human body is the brain. The brain is made up of billions of neurons. Each neuron is surrounded by an insulating layer called the myelin sheath.

The myelin sheath is made up mainly of .... FAT. Fat is made up of complex long chain fatty acids. The human gut cannot manufacture this from vegetable matter, only ruminants and hind gut fermenters are able to break down cellulose.

Please all of you anxiety riddled people, stop torturing yourselves and have a CHEESE sandwich made with BUTTER. Have a full cream yoghurt and drink a glass of milk! You have those cravings because your body is screaming at you to feed it properly!

And never, ever put children on your silly neurotic regime. Thank goodness it is outlawed in Italy as child abuse, and there have been prosecutions in Australia.

"Development[edit]
The process of generating myelin is called myelination or myelinogenesis. In the CNS, cells called oligodendrocyte precursor cells (OPCs; the precursors of oligodendrocytes) differentiate into mature oligodendrocytes, which form myelin. In humans, myelination begins early in the 3rd trimester,[10] although only little myelin is present in either the CNS or the PNS at the time of birth. During infancy, myelination progresses rapidly, with increasing numbers of axons acquiring myelin sheaths. This corresponds with the development of cognitive and motor skills, including language comprehension, speech acquisition, crawling and walking. Myelination continues through adolescence and early adulthood and although largely complete at this time, myelin sheaths can be added in grey matter regions such as the cerebral cortex, throughout life.[11][12][13]"

ozymandiusking · 22/10/2019 21:54

The farmers are not going to keep these cows sheep pigs etc as pets you know. They'll probably mostly die out from lack of attention.
Vegans vegetarians for Gods sake. Just shut up and get on with it and leave the rest of us meat eaters alone.

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 22/10/2019 21:57

YABU.

Have you thought about the terror imposed on the animals you eat - prior to and during slaughter?
It's the comments like this that particularly irk me, because they demonstrate a crashing ignorance about the realities of food production. Deer are shot to stop them chowing down on the tender green spears of wheat and barley. Rabbits are killed to prevent them devastating crops. Pigeons are shot over brassicas and OSR and God knows what else.

Sure, if you're a deer and you fall to a good marksman, you're barely aware of anything: one second you're standing looking decorative in a woodland glade and two seconds later you're dead. It's not always like that, though: pity the pigeon who is wounded, brought back by a spaniel after some minutes of suffering, and knocked sharply on the head.

My personal view is that small local slaughterhouses reduce the stress that animals are put through prior to slaughter and are therefore a good thing. But there is no point at all trying to guilt me about the pain and terror of slaughter, because I accept that slaughter is also involved in the production of the bread, fruit and veg in my diet.