AIBU to suggest that you aren't really an animal lover if you're not a vegan

[KylieKoKo]

I'm a meateater but I was chatting to a vegan friend of mine about this and I think she has a point. It makes no sense to call yourself an animal lover if you pay others to kill animals or take their milk and eggs when its perfectly possible to live without them. I couldn't help but agree with her, and, as a non-vegan, had to conceed that I don't really love animals. In fact, I'm putting the fact that they taste nice above their lives and well-being on a daily basis.

I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone on here had an argument against this.

There is a food chain. The spider eats the fly. My cat eats the spider. And so on. I eat meat but I pay more and avoid some products to ensure the animal whilst bred for the food chain had a good standard of living, and painless death. I'd like it if we all ate less meat but supply and demand would then price the less resourced out of the market. It's a difficult one.

@KylieKoKo

Post this again with a POLL.

See what the results are.

Erm animals eat animals. It's called nature 🤷‍♀️

Also I really love tofu. But I still eat it 🤷‍♀️

I think most people who say they are animal lovers don't mean they love all animals.

Bosh Despite no need in the modern day

Developed world privilege in action!

So much misinformation on this thread.

It is hypocrisy to claim to be an animal lover, yet still happily eat them or their products, for which they have been exploited. Rather than providing counter arguments, the majority of those replying on this thread have just mocked the OPs post. This is telling.

The biggest cause of monoculture growth is for animal feed. Growing animal feed is also the leading cause of deforestation in the Amazon.

A vegan diet requires far less land than an omnivorous diet. If more people become vegan, than less land would be needed for food production, and therefore more land could be left to lie fallow or be reforested.

A whole food plant based vegan diet is also great for health, including managing and preventing diabetes. There is a lot of research to support this. Contrary to what a poster upthread said, a vegan diet needn't be high in carbohydrates. It is also not deficient in protein.

It makes no sense to call yourself an animal lover if you pay others to kill animals or take their milk and eggs

I totally agree with you on a logical basis.

The issue is though is that it’s normalised and people engage in cognitive dissonance.

We also need a certain amount of the vitamins and nutrients from fish. And people tend to see their own health as paramount and more important than the welfare of sentient beings they don’t know.

Despite no need in the modern day

Developed world privilege in action!

However we are living in the developed world, enjoying the privilege we have so other populations may not have the choice but we do. It also helps those populations because they will be the first to suffer from Climate Change.

scittlescatter how do vegans get their omega 3 requirements? I’d love to become vegan but this is an obstacle for me. I limit my intake to fish because I think that fish + plants + no dairy is a balance between ethics and one’s own wellbeing.

A whole food plant based vegan diet is also great for health, including managing and preventing diabetes. There is a lot of research to support this. Contrary to what a poster upthread said, a vegan diet needn't be high in carbohydrates. It is also not deficient in protein

Bullshit.

Give me an example of a week's worth of balanced vegan meals following a low carb diet - say 50g as a daily allowance?

I bet you won't. Because you can't.

Easy to do for a couple of days, sure - but that sort of restriction is not so realistic on an ongoing basis.

I love animals, But I’m not so emotionally attached to them that I won’t eat them

I regularly go up the farm and give the cows a good pat and scratch on the head, I think they’re lush! I’m still going home to my steak though..

I absolutely adore goats, literally my favourite animal, I’d choose a pet goat over a dog any day of the week... I’d still eat goats cheese.

This thread is stupid. I have no fuss with vegans and vegetarians, good for them if that’s your lifestyle choice. It’s not mine, I love meat, cheese and milk.

Can you not just love tofu, quinoa and beans without being a pushy ‘you don’t love animals’ bellend?

how do vegans get their omega 3 requirements?
My children are vegetarian. I'm pescatarian. I was previously the only person in the house who ate oily fish. I now make jam with chia seeds and add ground flaxseed to everything possible, like scrambled eggs, porridge and salad. I find the main problem is B12. I stick a big spoon of marmite in chilli and bolognese etc but they also have vitamins. Re low carb, there is a vegetarian and vegan diet on the diabetes uk low carb programme. I find the veggie meal plans are fine but I don't do many of the vegan ones because they done appeal to me. I'd also think that, to be full enough you would have to have more than 50g of carbs. The definition of low carb is lower than 120g. I think as a vegan youd have to be at 120g as most protein sources are beans and lentils. You cant live on tofu!

@coatlessinspokane from algae. It's where fish get theirs from, so makes sense to get it directly from the source, rather than after its been processed by the fish.

I found fish the hardest thing to give up though, so I totally understand, but going vegan has been the best thing I've ever done.

@IDontWantToCookTonight

Can you not just love animals and not pay for them to live a miserable, short, unnatural life and be stabbed to death?

You know how we're told that militant, aggressive, sanctimonious vegans are just strawmen made up by defensive meat eaters?
Read Boshmamas posts and tell me that again please.

Haha @MaxNormal I know, it must be SO annoying for you. I'd rather be 'aggressive' about veganism than aggressively kill animals for the sake of my palate any day.

Also it is still a straw man to attack vegans rather than engage in the actual debate 🌱

So no animals are aggressively killed for the sake of a vegan palate? No pests who would eat crops? Or who would live on the land cleared? Or insects dead from pesticides?

Or is that more acceptable because it happens further off-screen?

Not annoying for me at all, just amusing having my point proved.

And I have engaged extensively in the debate if you had actually read the thread.

Well , I have followed a mostly vegetarian diet for almost 20 years ( my husband and son are vegetarian) and it has kept me obese.

In the last two.months have added fish and chicken back to my diet ( 4-5 times a week) and I have lost almost 3 stone. I still eat some carbs but the addition of more good quality protein has almost completely removed my desire to overeat and binge.

I love animals but I love myself more so for.now I will continue to.eat meat and fish.

I'd rather be 'aggressive' about veganism than aggressively kill animals for the sake of my palate any day.

It's not that everyone is eating meat 'for the sake of their palate'.

That is wilful ignorance. You are ignoring the reality of people with medical conditions that mean that no, they can't just eat some toast with marmite to ensure they get B12 or whatever.

That's my reality. In order to live as healthily as I possibly can I cannot eat (delicious) pulses or lentils everyday to meet protein needs. I can eat those foods sometimes, and I do.

I just think some vegans impatiently brush off the lived experience of other people. It shows you have very little idea of the reality of other people's lives.

I've had a PETA employee criticise me at a conference for eating eggs. Apparently I should've just eaten a bowl of cereal. Yeah mate it's not your eyes or kidneys that will be damaged by the high blood sugar three hours after eating porridge/ weetabix.

All this compassion for animals and zero empathy or understanding for people who are trying to cope with different chronic illness that means dietary modification.

Growing animal feed is also the leading cause of deforestation in the Amazon.

More vegan fake news. Leading cause is the palm oil industry at a whopping 40% all by itself. 80% of Palm oil goes in human food, including vegan products. The leftover dregs, some 20% go to animal feed- but mostly into pet food for dogs and cats not for livestock.
Do ya think this will go down or up if we stop eating meat?

@AbsentmindedWoman quite.
One of my best friends had severe Crohn's and pulses and soya will have him needing heavy duty painkillers. He's already iron and B12 deficient as it is. He's hardly eating animal products for his fucking palate. He's barely got an appetite as it is.

The biggest cause of monoculture growth is for animal feed
More BS, nope, biggest cause is the use of GMOs in crops for both humans and animals. You are conflating GMO monoculture practices as only producing ‘animal feed’ because GMO crops are mostly banned for human consumption in the U.K. But you’re only some 65 million. The populations of humans that do eat GMO crops number in the billions. As do the livestock that eat it.

@noblegiraffe do meat eaters not eat any crops or vegetables? Most meat eaters I know do, so kill those 'pests' etc. as well as killing other animals. Crops and veggies are also fed to farmed animals, killing 'pests' etc in the process. So whatever way you look at it vegans are killing an awful lot less animals than meat eaters - obviously.

@absentmindedwoman I'm sorry about your health struggles and don't mean to brush them off. But sadly the truth is the majority of people eat meat because they like the taste and have been culturally conditioned to eat it and seperate their feelings towards different species of animals.

@MaxNormal happy to help ✌️