Drinking drugs and smoking whilst being pregnant?

[pennygirl26]

I know someone who is due her baby in Dec. She only found out a few weeks ago she is pregnant.

She had very openly continued to smoke cigarettes and joints,but has been drinking also saying its not anything worse than what she's done in the past 6 months. She's also still taking coke every now and again. What can I do about this? I feel sick every time I see her. The other night I caught her buying a half bottle. It's just so dicgusting I don't know who to go to as I don't want her to know its me.

SesameOil

Hmm. Would it go like: “I enjoy the thought of cuffing and humiliating these evil, selfish Babylonian whores, even when it will be fucking expensive and utterly pointless?” 👀

One has one's suspicions seaweed. But that's essentially what anything that isn't fund mental health and early intervention services much, much better can be summed up as on this topic.

Read my post. 🤷🏻

Sorry I must have missed it.

What does it gain you to swap one group of foetuses for another group of women and foetuses? Why do you get satisfaction out of the idea of locking up X number of women, even when the consequence might damage X + even 1 woman?

But that is just your prediction of the outcome. We know the current system does not work, so surely you see that's not the answer, we have to try something new.

But that is just your prediction of the outcome. We know the current system does not work, so surely you see that's not the answer, we have to try something new

No, we don’t know the current system doesn’t work. We know it doesn’t work perfectly. We have every reason to believe yours would be at leas as flawed. And more costly. And unethical.

So again, why this way? Why do think this would actually result in better outcomes for more women and their babies?

Have just looked up the average cost of a 28 day stay in rehab: £4,000. Add the cost of prison guards. Add the cost of court and solicitors. Add additional doctors and midwives and the cost of that.

We’re talking about thousands and thousands of pounds. Get a grip!

seaweedandmarchingbands

How much does it cost per child born with FAS then to care for them over their lifetime?

And some women with substance abuse issues would get pregnant to get that sort of care. 😂

TequilaPilates

I am not sure, but I think there would be more of them born that way if you did this.

Is this funny to you then seaweed? Only I think this is heartbreaking. I certainly wouldn't think to make a joke out if it.

TequilaPilates

I think that consideration above comes with an ironic black humour. Yes. I don’t think the situation as a whole is funny.

I don't see humour in any of this seaweed. Only lives ruined and I find it utterly heartbreaking.

Well, it’s lucky for both of us that we have the right to think different things, isn’t it? Or one of us might be going to prison.

I guess, if you think there's humour in discussing disabled children.

I think there is humour in this stupid idea. It’s a dark humour, but nevertheless it’s there, for me. You can think as you wish, of course.

Personally I focus less on humour, and more on the failure of anyone who disputes that a woman has a right to do things that might harm a foetus to come up with a remotely workable idea of what this belief might look like in practice.

Personally I focus less on humour,

Me too, but I wonder if some posters are choosing to attack the fact that I found their idea absurd because it’s so blatantly absurd that they can no longer defend it.

It did come at quite a convenient point for anyone who might want a reason to stop defending the imbecilic...

It did indeed.

I was just thinking - and forgive me, because no, it’s not really funny, but it is absurd - of the long line of poor women from ages 20-60 who would be banging down their doctors’ doors saying they were pregnant in order to access rehabilitative services that they’d been begging for for years. And half of them wouldn’t be pregnant. And the rest would have fallen pregnant so they could go to rehab. And it would cost even more than if they just provided that service, free of charge, for people suffering from addiction issues.

But of course, these people don’t give a shit about these women, and that’s the primary issue here.

So just working backwards from being away dealing with real life.

Have just looked up the average cost of a 28 day stay in rehab: £4,000.
Is this for a private stay in the rehab or is this what it costs the government funded rehab?

Add the cost of prison guards. Add the cost of court and solicitors. Add additional doctors and midwives and the cost of that.

We’re talking about thousands and thousands of pounds. Get a grip!

Yes, we are talking about investment and funding. Surely everyone acknowledges that funding is needed to tackle this issue that is currently not being addressed adequately. I'm quite alright but thanks for the offer.

What does it currently cost the government for the rehab they provide ?

No, we don’t know the current system doesn’t work. We know it doesn’t work perfectly.
We know it is missing women who are in need of help within their current children and with unborn babies they are abusing in their wombs.

We have every reason to believe yours would be at leas as flawed. And more costly. And unethical.

You have told us that it is flawed, not quite the same. What does it currently cost for the help given per head and the success rate, as without those figures you couldn't say.
Only unethical by some peoples standards

So again, why this way? Why do think this would actually result in better outcomes for more women and their babies?

I think it would give newborn babies a better chance of being healthy at birth.
It would stop a lot of women from being able to abuse their soon to be baby.
It would give women the chance of getting clean and having a support afterwards to stay clean.

I wouldn't be so arrogant as to say it's the answer or its not the answer. I'm aware things need to be tried and tweeted to get the best outcome. But I'm also willing to say things can't stay the same so here's an option/suggestion/ idea not lets just keep doing the same and hope it improves and sod the thousands it doesn't help for the ones it does, without considering anything else or suggesting some changes myself.

Well, it’s lucky for both of us that we have the right to think different things, isn’t it?
Thank goodness that's a fact.

Virtually nobody on this thread wants things to stay the same, the posters who have pointed out that a woman has the right to do things that damage her foetus were the first to advocate for better funding for mental health and support services. Team Incubator had managed to come up with, erm, helping kids sue their mothers.

And half of them wouldn’t be pregnant
So that's a non issue in this discussion as they wouldn't fall in the remit. (obviously it's a discussion to be had on why the funding isn't there, but not on this thread )

And the rest would have fallen pregnant so they could go to rehab. And it would cost even more than if they just provided that service, free of charge, for people suffering from addiction issues.
I completely agree the service should be there, but it's not as the system is currently failing them.

I don't doubt some probably would look at getting pregnant to get in there, these would flag themselves up the minute the pee hits the stick and the baby would be born fine, but it could raise the amount of unwanted pregnancies, the same as people used to say the youth get pregnant to get a council house so we shouldn't house them

But of course, these people don’t give a shit about these women, and that’s the primary issue here.

I think it's really sad if people don't care about these women, they are venerable women who need education and help, but they also need to be stopped from causing lifetime damage to their child.

I'm not quite sure who these people are that keep getting referred to in the thread, I'm assuming not me or surely people will just call it out and direct it at me or quote me so I've dismissed their statements at being aimed at me

@tigger001

I'm a ward manager of a women's MH ward, and a MH nurse. Your idea of detaining pregnant drinkers is totally inpracticable and counterproductive

• It is a nightmare when a pregnant woman needs hospital treatment because of the huge risk involved. This is primarily a risk of attack by others. I'd imagine this group of women would be more likely to behave anti-socially, and so every womsn would be at huge risk of attack. Assaults would happen without a doubt, even somewhere staffed up to the teeth. This puts the foetuses at immediate risk.

• To keep someone detained who wants to leave (and any addict would be highly motivated to leave) you sometimes need to use restraint. All methods of restraint put a foetus in danger, particularly prone position which is most frequently used. An alternative would be seclusion, which would be highly stressful and so also risky, not to mention barbaric in the circumstances

• ..unless you sedate the women, which obviously carries risks too. Many sedatives have similar risks in pregnancy to alcohol

• You would need a highly skilled team of clinicians. Good luck recruiting them, because no decent doctor or nurse would touch this

• Most importantly you would destroy the already fragile relationship between this cohort and ante-natal care. Women who are motivated to continue drinking would not disclose their pregnancies. They'd miss out on screening and some would try to give birth alone. There would be deaths of mothers and babies, alongside children growing up unregistered and unknown to health services or SS.

Your idea is an ideological one rather thsn a practical or productive way of protecting children.