Drinking drugs and smoking whilst being pregnant?

[pennygirl26]

I know someone who is due her baby in Dec. She only found out a few weeks ago she is pregnant.

She had very openly continued to smoke cigarettes and joints,but has been drinking also saying its not anything worse than what she's done in the past 6 months. She's also still taking coke every now and again. What can I do about this? I feel sick every time I see her. The other night I caught her buying a half bottle. It's just so dicgusting I don't know who to go to as I don't want her to know its me.

A chance of the prospect of being detained for the entire pregnancy if your addiction is discovered helping some women? Nah. It'll deter them from seeking antenatal care, we already know this is what happens when people are worried about detriment if they engage. I'll say it again: if you give a shit about foetal welfare, you do not place barriers or disincentives in the way of women accessing antenatal care. Pure self-indulgence and delusion to think otherwise.

SesameOil

Yup. And now we have children with mothers with substance abuse problems AND other, treatable and dangerous conditions. Lovely. It’s almost like these women don’t matter at all, isn’t it? Non-persons.

don’t think would get them help at all. It might help the foetus. It isn’t going to help the woman to be locked up and forcibly “dried out”. That would be a traumatic experience that wouldn’t address her underlying problems. It would be almost certain to lead to relapse

Yes it would be traumatic (as it is for newborns who have to go through withdrawal as they are born crack addicts) but they would be helped through withdrawal as in some instances cold Turkey can be catastrophic.

There would be support for their underlying issues in the form of counselling or therapy once they are in a position for it to be of some help.

you WILL be frightened off asking for help by the knowledge that, if you fail to quit, you will be locked up and your children (if you have any) and new baby will be removed. Of course it will put people off

Yes I'm sure it would be frightening but it would be a case of if you fail, yes you go to a facility where the support is their to see you through

Yes it may put some off but it will also highlight others and bring them in to the support system to help their children/ unborn children.

Tigger001

I can see you mean well, but no, it wouldn’t work. People have to want to seek help, and that help has to be in their interests, as the patient, and with their consent. Ethics 101.

The level of delusion it takes to think this is any kind of solution is mesmerising. And terrifying, the denial people are capable of when they don't want to admit that we can't prevent women from abusing substances in pregnancy.

The level of delusion it takes to think this is any kind of solution is mesmerising.

And when you point out that, for every child you help, you would be putting other children and women at greater risk, it’s “la la la - but some would be helped.” Yes, at a COST.

I mean, on the subject of preventable brain damage, what do we think happens to the risk of this if a woman doesn't access antenatal care? Birth with skilled attendants?

Possession of a class A drug is a criminal offence. It’s a scourge of our society and the root cause of much of the crime that takes place on our streets.
Also when I was in NICU there were 5 newborn babies there (across 6 weeks) who were being weaned from drug addiction. It’s absolutely heartbreaking. Poor things.

Yes seaweed I do mean well as I'm sure you do in that you think it should just be let to happen and not think of anyway to try and help prevent it. Just hope it goes away or accept it.

It's a difference of opinion and that's exactly what both are until something is tried and tested.

SesameOil

Or if the child is born suffering withdrawals and with FAS because she didn’t ask for help, because she was afraid of being banged up in an institution?

Yes seaweed I do mean well as I'm sure you do in that you think it should just be let to happen and not think of anyway to try and help prevent it. Just hope it goes away or accept it.

No, that isn’t what I think at all. I think non-judgmental, non-punitive treatment programmes are the very best way to prevent it that we have.

Tigger, are you operating in the belief that we don't already know what happens when you place disincentives in the way of people seeking healthcare?

Or if the child is born suffering withdrawals and with FAS because she didn’t ask for help, because she was afraid of being banged up in an institution?

But of a silly point as it is already happening without that in place.
Hence people trying to discuss how best to protect our unborn ?

But of a silly point as it is already happening without that in place.

No, you are ignoring the perversity of your plan. It actively puts women off from seeking treatment that they might otherwise have accessed. It’s terrifying. You’re suggesting that, if they can’t stop, they be - what? - cuffed and dragged off in front of the neighbours? Locked in a room for 9 months, Offred-style? They lose their dignity and sense of autonomy. They are physically restrained when they try to leave.

Have you any idea how damaging what you are suggesting is?

The fact that its happening now hardly means it can't be made worse by stupid policies being implemented. This is the problem with some of the posters in this thread, an inability to understand that a bad problem can be worsened.

No, that isn’t what I think at all. I think non-judgmental, non-punitive treatment programmes are the very best way to prevent it that we have.

But they are not working hence us having this discussion?

But they are not working hence us having this discussion?

Of course they are working, for thousands of women and their children. How many of those women, who might have asked for help absent your ludicrous plan, would be drinking in secret and keeping their pregnancies quiet, because they were so frightened of your “helpful” suggestion?

they be - what? - cuffed and dragged off in front of the neighbours? Locked in a room for 9 months, Offred-style? They lose their dignity and sense of autonomy. They are physically restrained when they try to leave.

I'm assuming you don't agree with prison then and have the same issue with all the inmates having their dignity taken away and being cuffed in front of their neighbours.

I understand that you believe its different as the person is not born yet, but yes something of a system whereby we protect the unborn needs to happen. And if that removes the liberty that is ok with me and if it takes away their dignity for a short period, then that's fine as they are taking the dignity of another for 80 years plus.

What was your change in the termination legislation ?

I'm assuming you don't agree with prison then and have the same issue with all the inmates having their dignity taken away and being cuffed in front of their neighbours.

I believe people being arrested, charged and put in prison have committed crimes. These women haven’t. If you are proposing criminalising and sentencing them, you are even further on the fringes of reasonable thought than when you were suggesting “compulsory rehab”.

If you want to make ingesting poisonous substances or substances that carry risk during pregnancy a crime, why stop at alcohol and cocaine? Tobacco? Bleach? People who try to hang themselves?

It. Never. Ends. You are being very cavalier with a fundamental right.

We've already established that your moral code doesn't prevent you from wanting to see pregnant women doing legal things from being treated like criminals tigger. The ethical argument is clearly lost on you. This doesn't, however, mean your suggestion isn't counterproductive and entirely against everything we know about how people behave when we place barriers in the way of them accessing care.

Of course they are working, for thousands of women and their children. How many of those women, who might have asked for help absent your ludicrous plan, would be drinking in secret and keeping their pregnancies quiet, because they were so frightened of your “helpful” suggestion?

But surely you see on the flip side of that it is not helping thousands of women and their children, like the OP friend/neighbour.

So the current system isn't working.

What was your change in the termination legislation ?

Read my post. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Of course possession is illegal but I’m saying that I have never heard of anyone being charged for using drugs, I know this because back in 2000 I was on E’s (they were Class A back then, may still be) and I got mugged and I went into the police station to report it, and the policeman asked if I was on something and I told him I had taken an E, he just glared at me and then took my details, no charges were made and nor was I searched, I think I actually answered him “look I’m not here to talk about what drugs I’ve taken, I’m here to report a crime”

But surely you see on the flip side of that it is not helping thousands of women and their children, like the OP friend/neighbour.

What does it gain you to swap one group of foetuses for another group of women and foetuses? Why do you get satisfaction out of the idea of locking up X number of women, even when the consequence might damage X + even 1 woman?

I think I can answer that for you seaweed...