Drinking drugs and smoking whilst being pregnant?

[pennygirl26]

I know someone who is due her baby in Dec. She only found out a few weeks ago she is pregnant.

She had very openly continued to smoke cigarettes and joints,but has been drinking also saying its not anything worse than what she's done in the past 6 months. She's also still taking coke every now and again. What can I do about this? I feel sick every time I see her. The other night I caught her buying a half bottle. It's just so dicgusting I don't know who to go to as I don't want her to know its me.

Because the state does such an appalling job at looking after children in the care system. A sobering thought, no pun intended, but no less true for it.

Quite ironic how suddenly the state does such an appalling job of looking after children in care and yet posters are quite happy for children born with FAS to be taken into care if necessary?

I guess there'll be plenty of job opportunities working for organised criminal gangs smuggling alcohol into the country if we do ever have a ban contraceptionismyfriend. A reassuring thought, I'm sure!

Care is the only option for children whose parents can’t look after them and who will place them in danger. It is always the least bad option though.

Quite ironic how suddenly the state does such an appalling job of looking after children in care and yet posters are quite happy for children born with FAS to be taken into care if necessary?

How is that ironic? Could you explain? And when you've done that, could you clarify how it would be better for the state to remove children from a woman who has drunk more than the recommended maximum during pregnancy?

Contraceptionismyfriend

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time I looked pubs, bars and nightclubs weren't the only places offering employment?

It could be an initial compulsory stint in rehab, then testing to see if she stays clean, but yes maybe something more drastic, ie medical rehab facility, if she is hell bent on taking drugs when pregnant. then once the baby is born at least the baby will have been spared brain damage.

@SesameOil I would not be any good at that at all...

TulipsTulipsTulips

Prison. You can’t imprison sane people who have committed no crime. It’s against the law and any law trying to make it happen would be overturned by the courts. We have very well-established norms in this country, that say this would be illegal action by the State.

How is that ironic? Could you explain? And when you've done that, could you clarify how it would be better for the state to remove children from a woman who has drunk more than the recommended maximum during pregnancy?

The woman has a choice. If she stops drinking then her children won't be taken into care will they? If she can't or won't stop drinking then her living children aren't her priority and so, yes, in that case where children aren't the priority but drink or drugs are social services should step in.

Quite ironic how suddenly the state does such an appalling job of looking after children in care and yet posters are quite happy for children born with FAS to be taken into care if necessary?

Nobody is “quite happy” with that. If necessary, it must happen. Same with older children. The question is, is it really necessary?

The question is, is it really necessary?

If drink or drugs are the priority and not the children then yes, I think it is necessary.

well, the government could pass legislation to make it clear that taking class A drugs when pregnant is illegal, and the consequences could be set out in law, giving judges discretion where appropriate. The courts would not overturn it- why would they? It could be legislated as a form of assault on the foetus.

“It could be an initial compulsory stint in rehab”

Compulsory for who @TulipsTulipsTulips? How much booze do you have to drink when pregnant to get sectioned?

TulipsTulipsTulips

You can’t assault a foetus. If assault on a foetus becomes illegal, it can only be because the foetus is considered a person. If the foetus is a person, abortion is also made illegal, by any logical standards. Are you prepared for that outcome to your proposal?

When pregnant?

So a women planning an abortion must now not drink or face prosecution.

Wow.

I agree with Sesame here. Either women are moral agents capable of making informed decisions about their bodies just as men are, or they aren't. Foetuses are not independent people. They exist only by the life support of the mother. The moment that life support is gone, right-to-life types have no further interest in the actual life of a living being. So fuck that.

If drink or drugs are the priority and not the children then yes, I think it is necessary.

I agree that it is necessary if the children are being neglected. But that has nothing to do with their mother’s pregnancy. It applies to all children, whether their mothers are pregnant or not.

Well no, the legislation could be drafted to recognise the foetus in the current scenario and to make a clear carve out that abortion remains legal. The legislation can be very specific. Alternatively the law could say nothing about whether or not the foetus is a person and simply make it illegal to take class A drugs when pregnant. For goodness sake, if it’s illegal to drive without wearing a seatbelt then it a law could be written to make it illegal to take hardcore drugs when pregnant.

That legislation would be weak, Tulip. There has to be a legal basis for a prohibition in law. If it is that you can’t harm the foetus, you are opening up the door to an abortion ban, regardless of what you write in the law.

The woman has a choice. If she stops drinking then her children won't be taken into care will they? If she can't or won't stop drinking then her living children aren't her priority and so, yes, in that case where children aren't the priority but drink or drugs are social services should step in.

Well tequila, leaving aside the philosophical discussion about the level of choice an addict has, tigger actually said nothing at all to suggest that the children wouldn't be taken into care if the woman stops drinking. She simply talked of compulsory facilities. We have had no information at all about whether the women would be allowed to leave after a certain period or whether they would be kept in during the whole pregnancy just in case. The relapse rates after the trauma of forcible imprisonment in a rehab facility might be concerningly high, after all.

What if a woman decides on an abortion carries on as normal then changes her mind?

It's her body. You can't make rules for her to follow regarding her body.

Do I think it's abhorrent to abuse substances whilst pregnant? Yes.
Do I judge them? Yes.

But you're solution is ridiculous and would never work in the real world.

The relapse rates after the trauma of forcible imprisonment in a rehab facility might be concerningly high, after all.

And some women would lose their babies as a result of being locked up.

Yes their liberty would be removed. It could be a short stint in a rehab facility that is compulsory. They must stay there, where there are medical professionals to ensure their safety whilst they withdraw.

They are sent to prison for punishment and rehabilitation. They still did the bad thing. It didn’t stop it happening. In this case, throwing the woman in prison is too late to save the baby with FAS

Yes that's how prisons work, which wasn't my original offering, but it would be their liberty being taken. So by this rational prisons should be abolished ??? As the crime is already committed.

What do you think about people with genetic disorders having children, should we lock them away too?

quite a leap. Absolutely not they are 2 completely different scenarios.

How can she have the right to kill the foetus but not to harm it?  that’s completely batshit

It's not batshit to comprehend the idea that a foetus can be terminated at a point where it is not classed as a baby, to then continue to cause harm to a foetus who will then have 80years of a compromised life.

It's not batshit to comprehend the idea that a foetus can be terminated at a point where it is not classed as a baby, to then continue to cause harm to a foetus who will then have 80years of a compromised life.*

If it is not classed as a baby, what am I harming by drinking? This is utter rubbish. It’s either a person or it isn’t.

@seaweedandmarchingbands

I suppose it’s a matter of priorities. For me, the notion that a person may live a life brain damaged because a pregnant mother took drugs when pregnant is worth legislating to prevent, even if there are potential challenges. I don’t agree with the floodgates point, a law about taking drugs pregnant is not the same as taking away abortion rights. I do feel really strongly about this one but I also appreciate and respect the fact that there are many different opinions on this heartbreaking topic.