To ask: what could Extinction Rebellion do to convince you?

[WallyWallyWally]

So another series of XR stunts unfolded today: a tree surgeon climbs Big Ben and unfurls a banner. Some other activists have chained themselves to the door of the Kenyan embassy. A big wooden tipi has been constructed to block Oxford Circus. In the crowds, people have been painting their hands red and are leaving handprints on pavements to symbolise... something.

They’ve camped out in public places. Climbed on top of trains and planes Performed various theatrical performances. They’ve marched and glued themselves to buildings. Held up traffic, waved banners, got kids to stay off school.

What XR want Is: for governments to declare a climate emergency, for actions to be taken to address this and for citizens assemblies to be set up to decide what these actions should be.

I’m not arguing about the science of climate heating (I’m convinced). I’m not asking them not to be hypocrites (it’s impossible to live a truly green lifestyle within our society as it is).

So: what could XR do to convince you of the right-ness of their cause? What action should they take? What campaigns / stunts / awareness raising can they do that would convince you that the house is on fire? To the extent that you would lobby your MP / campaign / join them?

Of course it matters how its delivered FFS

I didn’t exactly say that it didn’t matter. I said who cares if they’re crusties. Or hippies. Or posh. Or middle class.

The commuter incident may be a step too far but the truth is that very few people exist who were supportive of CC action up until that incident and then decided based on that incident that CC action is unnecessary.

XR don’t care what you think of them. They care what you think of climate change. And if you change your mind about climate change because you disagree with the tactics of XR then you’re a very silly person.

Volunteer for sterilisation?

To be clear, I’m not a fan of XR at all. I look at their stunts and, like many of you, am totally turned off from their message by their antics. I Haven’t personally been affected by what they do but clearly they are making a lot of people (on this thread!) very angry - and not in a way that gets them writing to their MPs to demand they support action to tackle climate change.

But I wonder then, what would make me listen? What would convince me?

Litter pick ups etc are great: they don’t have any impact on climate warming.

I agree with what they stand for but sadly I feel they are feeding straight into the hands of the right wing haters by making it a bit ‘woo’.
I absolutely hate those horrible costumes with the veil and painted faces. I think they are partly what makes it feel inaccessible for the average Jo and it makes me really sad that something so important becomes a bit of a carnival for alternative types to showcase their particular brand of alternativeness!
I have not got involved and feel guilt because of it but I also feel some people are doing it for their ego.

David Attenborough / the BBC have a new nature programme coming out soon. In the interview I just read, he talks about how Blue Planet 2 “electrified» people into taking action on plastic pollution. Maybe something similar for climate warming would be more effective than XR? Though the message is very different: decarbonising the economy is a much bigger challenge than reducing plastic pollution (which is massive enough in itself).

Or maybe the message is just too scary? One reason why I dislike XR is that I do not want their message to be true. I like my life. I like being able to travel, to live overseas and still see my family. I like having decent heating and a comfortable house, a car that takes me where public transport can’t. I like having my children. I like eating meat and avocados flown from god knows where. I like having choices. And I don’t want to support anything that threatens that.

Stop being so posh

How do they stop being posh handsoff?

@Dita73

@heartsonacake snap. Let's start with making XR extinct ... that should make a good start

Utter wankers.

They aren’t claiming to have the answers - only that we need to look to the experts for them

They don’t want solutions. They want to be self-righteously angry. We could have an energy policy like France, 70 percent nuclear, and then support public transport where feasible. Done.

But they won’t hear of it.

Also, not sure why scientists are to have all the answers. For starters, the only thing they really agree on is that global warming is happening. They can’t even agree on how much of that is caused by humans, much less predict what is going to happen as it gets warmer.

Scientists look at data; politicians are supposed to take that data and find solutions. That’s how it works (and a hard NO to citizen assemblies, talk about slowing everything down under NIMBYism)

In any case, I prefer to have a richer society to deal with any bad climate effects. What will save the third world is making them richer to deal with the effects of climate change, not denying them access to cheap, plentiful fossil fuels.

Try advocacy and persuasion if you want to win people over. Make sure your message is clear. No amount of dancing or fannying about in costumes performing little tableaux for the cameras is going to achieve that. The message has been incoherent at best, and if you asked most people what XR are trying to say, they wouldn’t be able to tell you. That business at Canning Town and Shadwell was a serious misstep, not least because it has been broadcast around the world and so will follow XR for some time.

To put it simply: I’d support XR if they advocated for nuclear energy.

I appreciate they are just doing whatever they can think of to get attention. I believe a lot of their protests could be deemed as extreme, however extreme action is needed. But they really need to think about where and why, because some of their protests are so random and meaningless. It certainly doesn't make them look credible.

I think coherent speeches and arguments are needed too. I've never encountered them but have heard a lot of them are rude.

Although I'm supportive of tackling the climate crisis urgently. They are going about it the wrong way which I fear is taking some credibility away from their cause.

ER just aren’t remotely credible right now for a lot of Londoners. From the stories about them queuing in Pret for their coffees in disposable cups, to the hypocrites open letter, to the tube fiasco, there’s just too much that suggests they’re all ‘do as I say not as I do’ and have no idea of how they come across to the public.

It’s a minor thing but if nothing else had put me off, the rainbow banner on Big Ben would have definitely made me uncomfortable. As a lesbian who’s been threatened with arrest by Stonewall twice now for protesting outside their conferences, for me the rainbow has become a threatening symbol of homophobia. Just one more thing that jars.

The message has been incoherent at best, and if you asked most people what XR are trying to say, they wouldn’t be able to tell you.

Of course people would be able to tell you. They think climate change is happening and want politicians to do something about it.

Well said @KatyCarrCan

Extinction Rebellion are absolute fucking idiots and everyone I have met recently, from EVERY walk of life, thinks the same.

Totally undermining a very valid point.

For me, ER have not been compelling so far. Defacing public buildings, wasting police resources, freezing up the centre of London.

I think it would be much more helpful if an environmental concern showed people how to improve things at a local level, so publicising community gardens and growing projects, making local food producers much more visible, encouraging car shares where public transport isn’t great, making sure everyone can easily access recycling facilities even if they don’t have a car, making more happen in the local area so less need to drive for entertainment and so on

ER just aren’t remotely credible right now for a lot of Londoners

Credible in what way? Again it’s not about XR being credible, It’s about the true extent of climate change being credible.

Defacing public buildings, wasting police resources, freezing up the centre of London.

The “paint” was a mixture of food dye and easily washed off.

The disruption caused is nothing compared to the economic collapse that will occur if nothing is done.

Nothing, I see them as hindering, wasting people's time, using up resources. My opinion of them is that they are less about climate change and more about protesting and making a nuisance of themselves. I think that they'd protest about the grass really being red and that we are in a matrix type world if it meant they could pull stupid stunts and get into the news.

I'm all for being given sensible, realistic options to help climate change, rather than idiots climbing Big Ben and disrupting

Unfortunately by doing these types of extreme stunts only pisses people off, and completely undermines the cause they are trying to highlight.

I had a discussion at work about this yesterday, and everyone said what a bunch of idiots they were, rather than discussing climate change

@MangoFeverDream

To me they seem like a bunch of over-privileged white middle-class anarchists. I’m not convinced that the people funding ER and pulling the strings give much of a shit about the environment. Some of their practices seem almost cultish.

Citizens assemblies will be full of more middle class white people chucking minorities, poor people and so on under the bus in pursuit of incoherent goals.

No ta.

I think the disruption of the tube lines was a total foot shoot. Unfortunately they don't do themselves or the cause any favours. I saw Luke Jarrom's Gaia and that was harder hitting than any ER campaign. Something like that, quietly done with facts and cleverly chosen images and soundtrack would probably get more people considering their choices. When you piss people off, especially people that are already not using cars for a daily commute, you start to become the enemy of your cause.

XR come across to me as extraordinarily arrogant. Their protests are all about themselves. I don’t need convincing that climate change is an issue or that the planet is in crisis, very few people do, what we need are practical solutions. We should listen to climate scientists? Great, where do I find out what climate scientists are saying, what actions I can practically take in my own life and what I could demand of those in power?

I went on their website the other day to find out more, because I do have these questions. All I found was their woolly ‘demands’ - which are not actual, practical things at all - the govt already ‘declared a climate emergency’, for all the good that does, reduce carbon emissions? Yes, great, we all agree with that. HOW????

And as for any useful actions I could take - basically the suggestion is to join them, give them money or go and annoy your MP by gluing yourself to their door or similar. Fab, cos that will reduce carbon emissions won’t it

I did not find any useful ideas or any links to climate scientists giving me useful ideas either.

I think XR should be paying the police bill, and have a massive change of attitude and actually campaign on practical ideas that could make a difference, whatever it is that the climate scientists say we should be doing, because I’m sure many of us would be all ears if they did.