To ask: what could Extinction Rebellion do to convince you?

[WallyWallyWally]

So another series of XR stunts unfolded today: a tree surgeon climbs Big Ben and unfurls a banner. Some other activists have chained themselves to the door of the Kenyan embassy. A big wooden tipi has been constructed to block Oxford Circus. In the crowds, people have been painting their hands red and are leaving handprints on pavements to symbolise... something.

They’ve camped out in public places. Climbed on top of trains and planes Performed various theatrical performances. They’ve marched and glued themselves to buildings. Held up traffic, waved banners, got kids to stay off school.

What XR want Is: for governments to declare a climate emergency, for actions to be taken to address this and for citizens assemblies to be set up to decide what these actions should be.

I’m not arguing about the science of climate heating (I’m convinced). I’m not asking them not to be hypocrites (it’s impossible to live a truly green lifestyle within our society as it is).

So: what could XR do to convince you of the right-ness of their cause? What action should they take? What campaigns / stunts / awareness raising can they do that would convince you that the house is on fire? To the extent that you would lobby your MP / campaign / join them?

What would you need to see or hear to make you believe that the house Is on fire and that dealing with that is more important than anything else?
I’m not disbelieving. What the fuck am I supposed to do? Give up work and go and live in a cave? kill myself? What?

From another thread.

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook Thu 17-Oct-19 20:02:46
Actively preventing people from getting hospital treatment, attending job interviews to improve their lives, arriving on time to get benefits, and getting to work in order to put food on the table IS a form of violence

Don't tell me, a woman of colour with children who faces both racial, sexual and class economic disadvantage that your actions directly adding to that disadvantage isn't violent. And the irony of it! The people with the most advantage pontificating to those with the least

I think the problem with the hypocrisy is just that - the hypocrisy. It's at odds with their message.

Apparently it's absolutely crucial that we all stop flying, except that Emma Thompson et al need to fly. So it's not really that crucial, is it? The human race is doomed if we continue to burn petrol, but Benedict Cumberbatch needs to drive MGs in India. So it isn't really that critical, is it? Just to take 2 examples from upthread.

We must all use less single-use plastic, but ER activists need to buy wrapped food from Pret, M&S, etc, and single-use cups of coffee, which is then bundled up in plastic bags and put out to be taken for the landfill. Which we must also stop using, because it's causing an emergency. But not such an emergency that everybody needs to act.

I don't buy their argument that they have to do these things to drive home their message. There can hardly be a soul in the UK who hasn't heard that they're passionate about the dangers of man-made climate change. Those who care knew about it before they started their antics and those who don't aren't going to change their minds because a whole lot of protesters make their lives difficult, specially when high profile activists are doing what they are telling the rest of us we shouldn't.

I worked in a lab dealing with climate change research and the whole industry relied on doomsday predictions to maintain funding

An interesting reflection on what some of us have been saying for years ...

gluing myself to a road is not more important than feeding my children, paying my mortgage, taking my son to his speech therapist or my mum to A&E.

The 'house is on fire' mantra makes you sound like a bot or brainwashed cultist. And XR have no solutions? What's the point of them then?

Come up with something useful. If they organised kids to clean up their own area, or to plant a community garden, or to recycle cans and bottles, they'd make a positive impact. As it is they are acting like idiots and making fools of themselves.

And no I don't believe that the world is coming to an end.

It’s not their job, they have self-appointed themselves into this role. And they are harming their cause by pissing off the public with their stupid stunts. They are just attention-seeking, professional (in the loosest sense of the word) protestors in it for their own self gratification.

I don’t think they actually know what their cause is, beyond “somebody (other than us) needs to do something to solve some problems because the house is on fire.”

The idea 'we all need to do our bit' is very noble etc but in reality, the UK doesn't have it's own separate bit of climate that we can save. I have mixed feelings about ExR; I agree that we need to wake up and take urgent action, but the 'we' has to be the world as a whole. The only way global warming can be slowed is by international action, agreements between all countries. ExR is preaching to the choir when the UK has quite ambitious environmental targets already, and we're one small country. It's only action in the US, China, India, etc that can save us. And those countries give no shits at all about people in tipis in Trafalgar Square. Or school children bunking off once a month, sadly.

'What would you need to see or hear to make you believe that the house Is on fire and that dealing with that is more important than anything else? More important than work or hospital appointments or other people’s hypocrisy or anything else?'

More important than using electricity to charge your devices to sit and pontificate on MN? If you're going to stop people from getting to their medical appointments then at least inconvenience yourself by not using the earths resources for your own entertainment.

The world may not come to an end but it's going to be a jolly sight more uncomfortable for a lot of people in the not too distant future.

Nothing. The stupid stunts which inconvenience ordinary people going about their business do the opposite of making me want to support their cause. I laughed like a drain at the video of the idiot who was dragged off the roof of a tube by a mob of angry commuters.

I also laughed at the sight of a couple of idiot ER people being pulled off the top of a train that they'd climbed on. It was an electric train, one that allows people to avoid using petrol driven cars. But ER thought it was a good action to take. That's why people find ER so odious - hypocritical people doing ridiculous things to "teach the rest of us".

A tv spot with a well crafted presentation about what is or what will be happening that ends with direction to a website where people can get more information.

Coordinated delivery of letters to politicians. Have those crowds that are currently disrupting cities, politely file in and deliver their opinions. To keep it eco-friendly, instead of delivering paper, they can hit send as they arrive at the office.

Basically, act like they belong at the grown-up table.

I’m not interested in what a bunch of hypercritical, middle class twats have to say for themselves.

What would you need to see or hear to make you believe that the house Is on fire and that dealing with that is more important than anything else

But is it?

A few years ago we were supposed to be fried by the hole in the ozone layer

The thing is asking what would make me believe

The answer is not someone glueing themselves to a building or camping out in the middle of the road or climbing on a train or a 17 year old with pigtails shouting the odds about how her childhood has been ruined. (The latter is down to her own parents to allow her to get in such a state)

None of this convinces anyone of anything because they are not saying anything new.

They are not really saying anything

They are just pissing people off.

I live in London and it is just another irksome protest where you have to take a taxi instead of the tube to get around the protests.

I am from the generation that returned glass bottles, you got a few pennies back and the bottles were recycled.

There wasn’t any plastic bags, you took a cloth shopping bag or took a cardboard box from the shop to put your food in and then you would use the cardboard for all sorts of things.

I already do what I can to minimise my environmental footprint, and I have lobbied my employer on the subject many times. I am a non-driver with no children and have only been on an aeroplane once this century.

I can't join XR in their protests because - gasp! - I have to go to work, and I simply can't afford to fuck off down to London at the drop of a hat.

DH is 69 and remembers returning glass bottles. You got different amounts back depending what type of bottle it was.

Nothing. At all. I mean they are forcing more people to use cars, are hypocrites, I have no time for the nonsense and blockading of public transport.

I get they have a message but they are doing more harm than good. I also dislike people who think they know everything trying to preach to me.

And citizen assemblies reeks too much of revolutionary France under Robespierre for me to feel at all comfortable with it.

Also my DP works in climate science and a lot of what they say is selective.
Also it would take 4 Earths to support the human population if everyone went Vegan. But that is never mentioned

I’m already convinced. I’ve organised climate change marches, done training sessions for how to start community gardens/affordable food co-ops in deprived areas.

But XR are now counterproductive. They are just annoying/hindering people whose lives are already hard enough.

They could stop being so fucking blinkered. They are as blinkered as the people they decry.

But ER thought it was a good action to take. That's why people find ER so odious - hypocritical people doing ridiculous things to "teach the rest of us".

To be fair the commuter train incident was condemned by XR.

I understand their frustration and who cares if they’re “? It’s the content of their message we should listen to, not the way in which it’s delivered.

“Crusties”

Of course it matters how its delivered FFS especially if it causes a zero hours worker to lose pay/get a UC sanction (just a reminder that UC is NOT JUST an out of work benefit)

If XRs actions have caused ANYONE to get a sanction regardless of their employment status i hope they go to the press.

It was only condemned by XR because they backtracked when they saw what happened. They were encouraging the action in the days prior to Thursday.