To ask: what could Extinction Rebellion do to convince you?

[WallyWallyWally]

So another series of XR stunts unfolded today: a tree surgeon climbs Big Ben and unfurls a banner. Some other activists have chained themselves to the door of the Kenyan embassy. A big wooden tipi has been constructed to block Oxford Circus. In the crowds, people have been painting their hands red and are leaving handprints on pavements to symbolise... something.

They’ve camped out in public places. Climbed on top of trains and planes Performed various theatrical performances. They’ve marched and glued themselves to buildings. Held up traffic, waved banners, got kids to stay off school.

What XR want Is: for governments to declare a climate emergency, for actions to be taken to address this and for citizens assemblies to be set up to decide what these actions should be.

I’m not arguing about the science of climate heating (I’m convinced). I’m not asking them not to be hypocrites (it’s impossible to live a truly green lifestyle within our society as it is).

So: what could XR do to convince you of the right-ness of their cause? What action should they take? What campaigns / stunts / awareness raising can they do that would convince you that the house is on fire? To the extent that you would lobby your MP / campaign / join them?

If they did nice little informative websites about local gardening etc they’d have as much impact as a local WI group.

No one cares. No one cares even when what we do for the next decade has huge impact. Let alone when some one makes a nice website with some well-presented facts.

I haven’t seen the dancing stuff online or irl so maybe that is a bit much but I couldn’t care less if they are crusties, benefit scroungers, middle class or posh - they’ve been called all of the range.

Anyway hopefully Attenborough has another good programme people seem to like him more. But still probably just some nice stuff to watch and talk about rather than do anything differently.

If they did nice little informative websites about local gardening etc they’d have as much impact as a local WI group.
I think local WI groups (should they be doing local actions/projects etc) and similar - local conservation groups, community gardening/veg box projects etc, probably have more impact on people actually doing things to reduce carbon emissions than XR do right now.

And that is still the equivalent of fuck all in the grand scheme of things.

If they did nice little informative websites about local gardening etc they’d have as much impact as a local WI group.

Agreed.

No one cares.

That is the crux of it. People can’t see the danger till it’s right in front of them. But by that time it’ll be too late.

Litter picking, growing your own veg, etc... The forests on fire and we're standing around pissing on it rather than trying to put it out.

XR simply put everyones backs up and do more harm than good. While its good that we each take action on our own part it'll take more than anything you or I can do to make a significant difference. Its not a new thing, I remember years ago (sixties?) there was a program on our effects on the planet, it started with a memo from god saying 'owing to lack of interest the future has been cancelled'.

Idiots glueing themselves to trains and generally making an embarrassing show of themselves are never going to be seen as a serious voice of the people. It's so unproductive.

Led By Donkeys have shown how to protest in a modest but impactful way. Again, it probably won't change anything, but nobody's going to lose a day's pay or feel the need to manhandle someone on their morning commute because a clever billboard poster has appeared at the end of their road.

Yep it has been talked about for decades in nicely presented programmes and scientifically and reasonably delivered. People took no notice. Just wallpaper nicely packaged so it’s palatable. It doesn’t make anyone feel anything, let alone make changes.

probably have more impact on people actually doing things to reduce carbon emissions than XR do right now.

I genuinely don’t understand this opinion. Your belief in climate change and what to do about it should have nothing to do with your opinion on XR.

Their only involvement in this is to make you aware. They’re not trying to sell you on the benefits of crustyism, yoga or dancing in the street. They’re trying to get you to talk about climate change.

Everyone seems to be saying “I believe something should be done about Climate Change BUT I don’t like their methods”.

Now get rid of that last bit and finish the sentence another way: “I believe something should be done about climate change AND that is....”

The disruption caused is nothing compared to the economic collapse that will occur if nothing is done

Your lot would cause a global economic collapse long before the climate would.

Do you seriously think we can survive as a civilisation without fossil fuels? Have you seen the child mortality rate in Western countries from just 100 years ago? We should reduce carbon emissions, yes. But we need to do it in smart ways, like investing in nuclear and supporting GMOs.

Are XR getting any reaction from the government? From big businesses? If everything we do is not enough who are they trying to convince to do something and are they paying any attention?

surely it’s the ‘big’ countries who need to act the fastest since they’re the ones producing the most pollution
Why aren’t XR demonstrating there or outside those embassies here ?
Guess It’s easier to glue yourself to an electric train with the other rent a mob crowd

Anyway I spoke with someone ( american) who said ‘the only person who can change the climate is God and we humans are arrogant if we think we can change anything’- others with them agreed.

O

With attitudes like that We are stuffed

The “paint” was a mixture of food dye and easily washed off

And how much water was wasted in that little stunt?

Angry People Win. This is the yucky lesson I have learnt from recent politics.
So maybe XR are doing exactly what they need to be doing to promote their cause. It doesn't matter whether they convince people like me (we don't count nowadays).

Ok, so doom doom, we’re all aware and have been for decades, there’s no point in recycling or growing our own veg...... so what is it that XR actually wants us to do? Seriously? What is their point? We KNOW climate change is an issue. What are they actually wanting to happen? Declarations and assemblies? These are not actual practical changes that will effect anything, just eat up more resources. I won’t be glueing myself to my MP for that.

From what I’ve read of their organisational structure, they operate as lots of independent, smallish, groups and each group can choose to take the action they deem to be appropriate - even if the majority of members overall do not agree. That’s what happened at Canning Town: although the great majority of XR members said no, the group that did it was able to go ahead anyway. It’s a structure that is going to produce some really dodgy decisions.

Litter picking, car sharing, reusable cups and the like, while lovely things to do in their own right, have absolute zero impact on the decarbonisation of our economy and lives. They don’t even scratch the surface.

So you would like to see the predictions of the scientific community explained in a more accessible way? Maybe an climate heating version of the Blue Planet - showing the impacts on animals, plants and human communities ?

. There already was one. David Attenborough did it. It was called "Climate Change - The Facts" and it was on the BBC in May. But the message was too hard to listen to and not nearly as many people watched it as the ones who wanted to see pretty fishes on Blue Planet

I think extinction rebellion are annoying lots of people and that alienates people which is not clever activism. But they're making the news and that's a good thing. I am pleased they are taking a stand for us.

Here's the David Attenborough documentary. Everyone should watch this.

Litter picking, car sharing, reusable cups and the like, while lovely things to do in their own right, have absolute zero impact on the decarbonisation of our economy and lives. They don’t even scratch the surface.

This just isn't true. Are you sure this is your field? Every change is a change in the right direction.

Your lot would cause a global economic collapse long before the climate would.

Lol, “my lot”? I’m not part of XR. I’m just an observer who understands that protests generally don’t come without disruption.

As for causing economic collapse, quite the contrary. It is precisely by acting now that we will preserve our economy and the material well-being that comes from it.

We may have a reduced economy for a while whilst we make the transition but in the long term the economy will recover and eventually thrive.
If we do nothing, then we will go back to the Stone Age.

Do you seriously think we can survive as a civilisation without fossil fuels?

That is an entirely different question. And the answer is the earlier we act the more chance civilisation has to survive without fossil fuels.

This isn’t about causing civilisation to collapse, but about preserving it.

@Kyvia

I think that XR would say you should pressure your MP (and every other one) to put the climate change emergency at the top of every government agenda - above Brexit, above everything else. To propose laws and legislation that addresses climate change. I think their justification for this is that, in the face of the devastation that climate heating will bring, everything else - poverty, equality, human rights possibly - needs to come second.

The Green New Deal is an attempt to push through climate change action while also producing jobs. No idea if it’s feasible, or just more greenwashing. But it’s an example of the kind of ideas politicians should be coming up with.

The tube stunt has convinced me that they are idiots.

The Greenham women and the A30 bypass protestors convinced me. XR are fair weather protestors.

Also digital media consumes almost more electricity than anything else (cloud storage and cooling) so not sure how they square that one away.

The question of hypocrisy has to be addressed I am not talking about tiny little inconsistencies but huge great whooping ones like Lewis Hamilton banging vegan drum while flying around the world to drive cars with enormous engines every week, Lewis knows that going veganis tiny tiny tiny compared to the damage he does to planet personally every week, the world does need food it does not need F1racing Lewis has enough money for the rest of his life he could just stop racing reduce his carbon footprint and stay home but he won't because he is not prepared to make the personal sacrifice that would be of greatest benefit to the world but reflects by going on about something else people need to lead by example. He is a very very rich man who says we should sacrifice meat while he won't sacrifice petrol guzzling cars

A lot of the actors celebs fly around the world saying they need to for work they don't they could have enough work to live on where they are live in Hollywood or live in London there is enough work for Emma Thompson unsigned place she really doesn't need to fly backwards and forwards like a yo-yo but greed to have even more money than they need makes them feel entitled to be hypocrite while lecturing people whose carbon footprint is probably only 4% of theirs that they need to change it sucks people know it sucks and if you want people to truly listen you need to lead by example.

No one believes that the "house is on fire" if you are still living in the house and enjoying it's amenities
XR may not know all the solutions but they do know that public transport is better for the environment than private cars so attacking the best way of dealing with climate change rather than the worst is of course going to annoy people and make people think they are protesters for the sake of protesting

Also digital media consumes almost more electricity than anything else (cloud storage and cooling) so not sure how they square that one away.

This is a fair point. But they need to get the message out there. Once they have and governments set parameters for fossil fuel based consumption I’m sure they will live within those boundaries. In the greater scheme of things that is far more useful than individual action without protest.

The tube stunt has convinced me that they are idiots.
Right but has it made you think about climate change? I’m sure you’re going to say no but that’d be a lie. You’re here discussing it on an online forum. It is slightly more in your mind than before. People are more aware of climate change than they were before.

Don't patronise me! I'm 53 and have been aware of climate change for years! I didn't need XR to tell me about it. I'm not 15 🤔